VERY lively small boy.

I had an experience during half-term last week with my DGS, who has an ASD. Major meltdown, in public, very busy road - plenty of people stared but NO-ONE asked if he was ok or offered help to either of us. I could have been abducting him for all any of them knew as he was screaming, spitting, hitting and kicking me

NfkDumpling Nobody has suggested it was 'normal' behaviour..although for a small child it might be.. It was certainly not socially acceptable!

Your comment suggests you do not really believe that children have ASD/ADHD? I did suggest in my post that he may be an unfortunate child who has been poorly parented.

Swanny

Must admit The mum had some patience I would have picked him up and gave him a good talking too. Think on reflection he may have been autistic you just don't know. I never slapped my children and I think it's the wrong thing to do to any child.
Having worked as a TA for 30 yrs I have seen the good and bad of children.
Sometimes it's just the parents who can't be bothered to teach their children about behaviour.

Just because children may have special needs doesn't mean that bad behaviour has to be accepted. I have worked with children like this for 40 years. Currently, I work in a nursery,a certain child runs rings round the other staff as they bark out their 'one word' instructions as indicated by the portage worker, I speak to him normal sentences and he does things first time.

My grand daughter is disabled, with a rare thing (WHS) and has no immune system. We manage perfectly well shopping on line and I honestly think that parents are responsible for subjecting their kids to miserable experiences causing them and others distress.

You do not need a 'team of helpers' you just have to get on with sorting out, what it is your own child can tolerate by way of external stimulations and if that child can't cope, then shop on line and spare everyone the hassle.

My daughter has 2 other children to cope with and is studying p/t, she takes appropriate steps to ensure the comfort and safety of her child, by putting her first and not tking her to places where she can't cope.

I step in and have the children if she wants to go and do 'trying things on', but when I see all the poor kids dragged around supermarkets, while they go into frenzy or melt down and their parent wanders about (on the phone more likely than not) taking no responsibility for the havoc caused, I could weep.

There really is nothing you can buy, that is more important than the comfort and well being of your child and the internet has made everything else so simple. Shops are open all hours now and 7 days a week, children susceptible to sensory overload need not be taken there, it cant be good for them.

I was a smug young mum. My kids behaved when they were out and at school and almost always at home. I thought I knew it all. And then we adopted and I very quickly learned that I didn't. No I wouldn't have let him slam doors and alarm people. He would have been picked up and carried screaming through the shop, down the escalator and out of the shop, shopping abandoned. And no, I didn't have anyone I could leave him with as my husband couldn't cope. It wasn't the child's fault and it wasn't mine but the mutterings of "insufferable child" and accusations, "I suppose he's been spoiled, being the youngest" stung and in memory still sting.

Not all autistic children are badly behaved and not all badly behaved children are autistic.

Those posters who say the issue was the mother's lack of response to the situation are spot on. Parents must take responsibility for their children's behaviour up to a certain point. That means trying to avoid situations that children cannot cope with, having strategies for dealing with difficult behaviour and, in the case of a specific issue, simply explaining to others briefly. When GS1 'kicked off' my DD would quietly explain, then deal with the behaviour. That elicited sympathy and understanding rather than condemnation,

It isn't easy, but ignoring the child and the effects on others isn't IMO an option.

Though M&S has always caused all the children I know to exhibit their worst possible behaviour! Possibly because women in general seem to go into a trance like state and become unaware of quite how bored their child had become.

Whatever the reason for the little boy's behaviour, I'm guessing the Mum was trying the 'ignore bad behaviour tactic'. How brave of her!

radicalnan there is more to life than supermarket shopping. DS and DIL regularly shop online and when 'trying things on' I look after DGS. BUT we all try to familiarise him with the so-called normal world within the limitations of his capabilities. As I said on another thread I do take him to a supermarket occasionally. We have our own routine whereby I lift him into a trolley, push him round while getting a few bits (certainly not a weekly shop), he unloads the items onto the belt, I pay then lift him out again in the trolley park. We then go to a certain bus stop and come home. No tantrums, no running around, no pulling stuff off shelves and no overloads leading to meltdowns.

What happened last week was unavoidable. We went to an inner city farm, where he has been several times with me and with his school. He is familiar with the place and the animals, and we go to the farm shop to buy fresh eggs from the chickens he's just been feeding. However, this time (for the first time) the shop was closed ... His routine had been changed and it was outside his comprehension.

Next time we will build in the possibility of the shop being shut and what we can do instead.

Youngest DGS is just out of nappies and fascinated by bodily functions. Last week, mum was washing her hands in M&S cloakroom when an older lady came out of one of the loos to be asked by DGS whether she had had a wee or a poo! Not very amused apparently ?

Penstemmon - I wasn't for one minute suggesting that ASD/ADHD doesn't exist, only that excuses seem to be being made by many that this child was behaving so abominably as he probably had behavioural problems. I know some do, but modern methods can help them learn to cope with different situations and what they can and can't do. A friend's child has learnt how to control his destructive temper outbursts and another wears ear plugs and uses breathing techniques to cope with noisy places which otherwise would send him frantic.

If this child did have a problem surely his mum should have said and apologised to the poor lady from the loo. I know it must be difficult to have to keep explaining, but it's quite difficult to be on the receiving end of bad behaviour. Somewhere along the line in a child's upbringing it has to learn what is socially acceptable otherwise he'll grow into an uncontrollable yob.

Quite probably a autism problem or similar, but I agree it was the mother's responsibility to deal with it, iby taking him out of the toilets (and the store if necessary). It is unrealistic to suggest that children should not be put in that position, mothers do need to go into shops, including M&S, and some actually prefer to see what is available rather than buying on line and having to return things if they are unsuitable

There is no way of knowing whether the child is just badly behaved or suffering from something like ADHD, but to my mind the mother's manners are appalling!

Whether or not her son is just naughty, she could and should have offered the other users of the ladies' room an apology.

I agree it is usually best to ignore two-year old tantrums, but that wasn't the issue here, was it?

And oh, yes, all churchgoers know that one child who is allowed to distract both children and adults from their devotions, while other children of similar age are behaving beautifully. Once again, it's the parents who are at fault.

I am all too well aware that a few children have challenging behaviours because of medical conditions. I empathise with their parents and know how difficult it can be.

However, twenty or thirty years ago I never remember being troubled by children's general behaviours in shops, buses or restaurants. Now it is a daily occurrence. Something has definitely changed and I think it is perhaps a combination of more "hands off" parenting in association with an awful lot of children being sleep deprived.

I am afraid that this is a prime example of many parents in this day and age, you see it everywhere you go, no boundaries whatsoever. Many children do what they want, when they want at a very young age,and totally rule the roost. Then when they become teenagers, parents wonder why they have no control or respect. I see this on a daily basis in a Senior School where I work and it makes me very sad to see it, the very basic manners and respect are missing.

young children, whatever their circumstances, learn from the adults that care for them.
good manners and respect begin at home. enough said.

When I worked as a first aider in a Department store, I was often shocked at the lack of control over children..
which consequently lead to accidents...and my being called to their aid...playing on escalators....climbing on display plinths, running around recklessly, please or offend...good behaviour starts with responsible peranting.

It could just be that the mother had reached a point where she couldn't face explaining everything again. Knowing how you should be handling a situation doesn't mean that it doesn't all get too much.

I don't think parents (or grandparents) should have to explain their child''s behaviour to random strangers. Sometimes in similar situations I'll speak to the child not to tell them off but as a distraction 'Wow those doors make a noise!' It can work

With you there costalminder

On the surface it looks as if the adult i/c the child was not doing a very good job. But when you are not sure of the facts it is unwise to become smug and say , "In my day...."

'What's Going to Happen to the Children When There Aren't Any More Grown-Ups?' - brilliant Noel Coward song which imho sums up quite a bit. So many parents behaving like adolescents with their little tecky-gadgets. And the 'progressive' parents ('We opted for called him Offspring till he was 5 so he wouldn't be traumatized by having a name imposed on him'). God help these poor young souls - it's a form of child abuse, really.

Not to mention the opposite side of the coin, parents terrorizing their children about A-levels and degrees when they're much too young for that sort of pressure.

I don't remember who mentioned sleep deprivation in children, but it's very true and so unhealthy.

Sometimes I try to imagine what it must be like to be young today and it breaks my heart. I know it's not all bad, I don't want to be depressing, but the sensory overload nearly drives me round the twist. I don't see how children bear it. Then the chemicals in food, air, and water. It's a miracle that more of them don't grow up ADD or autistic.

You're definitely not being unreasonable. Children deserve better.

There IS something about M&S stores that I find oppressive. I think they pack in too many items onto a small floor area.

So.....I shop online from M&S. ??

ADD/ADHD/autism are problem within the brain, children don't just become ADHD due to over stimulation.

Aside from that there is no need to let children to run riot that won't do anyone any favours.

Maybe though the mom was tired and didn't have anyone to leave her child with, not everyone has extended family or willing friends to help.

Maybe mom had been doing online shopping but was actually lonely and desparetly wanted/needed to get out the house.

Maybe people just shouldn't judge and make snap judgements on a snapshot of this families life.