Potential allergy issue at local pub

Most chefs, whether in a restaurant, or a pub, put their own little twists and garnishes on dishes. I would think that anyone with an allergy/intolerance to certain ingredients would be very specific when ordering their food. Likewise, anyone with a dislike for certain foods should make it very clear when ordering that they want a plain sandwich, or whatever, with no garnish/sauce, etc. It is the responsibility of the person ordering to make it quite clear what they want, and not expect the waiting staff, or chef, to know your specific preferences. If your food arrives with a sauce that you specifically said you didn't want, then you just simply send it back.

You are worrying about a hypothetical situation where, potentially, a person with an allergy could've eating your bacon & brie, with a sauce they are allergic to ... but you aren't a person with an allergy, and you didn't alert the staff to any intolerance, so there is no problem, is there? You simply didn't like the chilli jam, but I'm assuming you didn't specify that you wanted your sandwich completely plain, with no garnish, did you? Other customers, myself included, who are presented with a completely plain sandwich, with no garnish at all, may think it very boring, and that the chef hadn't made any effort to make his food more appealing. They can't be expected to automatically know everyone's preferences, unless they are told.

Jaffacake2

I suffer from anaphylaxis to wheat,nuts ,wine and prawns and have been resuscitated following collapse. I haven't eaten out for a long time,pre pandemic and may not in the future. In the past I have phoned to see if I can be safely catered for and then on arrival again ask the waiter to talk to the chef to ask if he is happy to cook for me. Many have refused to take the responsibility,which is fine by me.But if they do agree I expect it to be completely safe. Mistakes have happened in the past resulting in collapse and blue lighted to hospital.
People with serious food allergies will triple check everything or will not eat out. Friends and family understand that I may just sit with coffee and a large glass of coke,without lime as allergic to that too !

My sympathy for your allergies it must be very worrying.

When there is a party or going out with friends have you ever taken your own pre prepared food so you can enjoy the socializing safely, I’m sure restaurants would be only too pleased to serve it if you explain the reason.

Totally against the law. There should be a list of all foods and exactly what they contain kept on the premises and a notice advising customers with allergies to ask to see the list. I have. 5 Star Food Rating from the local council and had to do a food hygiene and preparation course which also covers allergies.

grannyactivist our grandson had the sesame allergy too and all nuts, he gets tested every year. At the grand old age of 8 he’s now only allergic to above ground nuts, épi pens still go everywhere with him.

I think we all have to take our own responsibility for food allergies and I think people often do . My grandson is coeliac and his Mum makes no bones about questioning ingredients and prep area. In one or two restaurants ( before COVID) the chef himself has come out to discuss their needs.

It’s not enough to say ‘ the restaurant should know better’ or ‘ it was listed’, we are all capable of asking the questions and restaurants don’t mind the questions, after all, they want a satisfied not dead customer.

Nansnet

Most chefs, whether in a restaurant, or a pub, put their own little twists and garnishes on dishes. I would think that anyone with an allergy/intolerance to certain ingredients would be very specific when ordering their food. Likewise, anyone with a dislike for certain foods should make it very clear when ordering that they want a plain sandwich, or whatever, with no garnish/sauce, etc. It is the responsibility of the person ordering to make it quite clear what they want, and not expect the waiting staff, or chef, to know your specific preferences. If your food arrives with a sauce that you specifically said you didn't want, then you just simply send it back.

You are worrying about a hypothetical situation where, potentially, a person with an allergy could've eating your bacon & brie, with a sauce they are allergic to ... but you aren't a person with an allergy, and you didn't alert the staff to any intolerance, so there is no problem, is there? You simply didn't like the chilli jam, but I'm assuming you didn't specify that you wanted your sandwich completely plain, with no garnish, did you? Other customers, myself included, who are presented with a completely plain sandwich, with no garnish at all, may think it very boring, and that the chef hadn't made any effort to make his food more appealing. They can't be expected to automatically know everyone's preferences, unless they are told.

Not the responsibility of the staff to ensure people come back to their business. What a strange world you live in Nansnet. I thought they were their to give a service that would do just that.

Oh, and there is the cost each time a dish gets sent back because the chef's choice, not the customers takes precedence. Nansnet It seems you just want to argue you are right and anyone with a different opinion is wrong but I think, whatever your opinion, the business it there to serve in a way that makes money and looking down on the customer, as you seem prepared to do, is not going to do that.

Pippa I don't understand why you believe that Nansnet is being argumentative.
She has only posted once on this thread, and all of her points seem completely reasonable to me.

I have never had chilli jam in a bacon and brie sandwich, and would be horrified if that happened, chillis do make me ill. It would never occur to me that they would put chillis in it, so I wouldn't think to ask for one without. Cranberry would be fine, but I would find it unusual if it wasn't listed on the menu, we must go to different eating establishments!

Because going out is rotten when you have intolerances and allergies FannyCornforth and putting the needs of the staff ahead of the needs of the customers is weird in the extreme and demeaning to those who do need to know - if only to enjoy their meal.

Of course it's argumentative to put the chef's needs ahead of the customers.

Ok, thank you Pippa
I didn't read it like that.
When you go out to eat do you mention your allergies etc to the waiting staff? Just out of interest, no arguments involved

I am getting heartily sick of cafes and restaurants adding chilli to just about everything. I had a bowl of vegetable soup on Wednesday which would have been lovely except it was laced with chilli and you totally lost the subtle flavours. I love tom yum soup and often order it and of course I expect it then but not when I get a European style soup.

It must be a nightmare to be in the hospitality industry these days with all these different food fads to cater for.

Obviously a genuine allergy which could be fatal is a different matter altogether but it does seem that every other person nowadays claims to have an allergy to something.

JenniferEccles

It must be a nightmare to be in the hospitality industry these days with all these different food fads to cater for.

Obviously a genuine allergy which could be fatal is a different matter altogether but it does seem that every other person nowadays claims to have an allergy to something.

This is the problem for people like me who suffer from anaphylaxis. Many staff in hospitality are bombarded with customers saying they are allergic to foods when it is apparent they just don't like them.
So I have to say all about carrying adrenaline injections in order to be taken seriously rather than order from a menu which has been certified as safe ingredients.
That's why I don't now eat out.

FannyCornforth

Ok, thank you Pippa
I didn't read it like that.
When you go out to eat do you mention your allergies etc to the waiting staff? Just out of interest, no arguments involved

It depends. If I am only having something I know is innocuous I will just order it - peppermint tea comes to mind.

I go to a few regular places and have whittled down what I can have without having to go through the list of all the things I can't have as it is a pain. Some places trade on providing gluten-free (which means wheat free for me) although I had ordered a burger once in a lovely burger place in Leeds that offered gluten-free. This was in the early days of living with my issues. The owner then asked what I couldn't have generally (it wasn't busy) and I mentioned onions at which point he took off at speed to the kitchen and came back saying they had some pre-prepped mince so we were okay.

In Betty's the head waiter has made suggestions for me and we have a pub nearby that I can ring ahead of time and he will tell me what's going to be on the menu and we sort something out. Elsewhere I have ended up with a piece of grilled chicken! I just have to be sure it isn't buttered. As I said - it's a pain, literally for me but also for those I'm with and the restaurant but I certainly sing the praises of those who are as kind as some of my regular (pre-Covid) haunts.

(I bet you wish you hadn't asked )

Ha ha! Thanks Pippa
And thanks for reminding me of Betty's. I used to absolutely love going to the one in York, and I'm not really a fan of eating out.

Jaffacake2

JenniferEccles

It must be a nightmare to be in the hospitality industry these days with all these different food fads to cater for.

Obviously a genuine allergy which could be fatal is a different matter altogether but it does seem that every other person nowadays claims to have an allergy to something.

This is the problem for people like me who suffer from anaphylaxis. Many staff in hospitality are bombarded with customers saying they are allergic to foods when it is apparent they just don't like them.
So I have to say all about carrying adrenaline injections in order to be taken seriously rather than order from a menu which has been certified as safe ingredients.
That's why I don't now eat out.

I'm sorry Jaffacake2 but I am not allergic (and wouldn't say I was) but I am intolerant to (cannot digest) foods containing high levels of short-chain carbohydrates. The last error I made meant I was ill for three weeks. Add to that the fact that this condition has already brought on one other condition (which needs me to keep the first in order so that doesn't get worse and I become immobile) and that I have a close relative who ended up with a colostomy because of not treating the same intolerances and a couple of others where it moved on to an IBD and I do think those with these problems deserve as much tolerance as those with an allergy. Even allergies vary in degree.

Pippa z completely agree with you that people with food intolerance should be treated the same as those with allergies. Both affect your health to differing degrees.
I meant that a lot of people say they are intolerant or allergic to foods which they just don't like. I heard a lady in a restraunt once saying adamantly that she needed gluten free pasta but then went on to have a chocolate cake for dessert ! It was normal wheat based flour. This is when servers become fed up with people saying they can't eat certain foods .

Recently when we have been eating out, the person taking the order has always asked if there are any allergies they need to be aware of. I agree it is irritating to get something you didn't expect, but surely if you had an allergy to chillies you would have said so. I hate butter, so whenever I order anything involving bread, I always make sure it will not already be on it, likewise potatoes. There is a certain amount of personal responsibility here, chefs cannot be expected to go through every single item surely

Jaffacake2

Pippa z completely agree with you that people with food intolerance should be treated the same as those with allergies. Both affect your health to differing degrees.
I meant that a lot of people say they are intolerant or allergic to foods which they just don't like. I heard a lady in a restraunt once saying adamantly that she needed gluten free pasta but then went on to have a chocolate cake for dessert ! It was normal wheat based flour. This is when servers become fed up with people saying they can't eat certain foods .

Oh dear Still it is the servers job to serve and not to judge their customers.

I wonder why she wanted GF pasta. It's better now than it used to be but why bother?

GillT57

Recently when we have been eating out, the person taking the order has always asked if there are any allergies they need to be aware of. I agree it is irritating to get something you didn't expect, but surely if you had an allergy to chillies you would have said so. I hate butter, so whenever I order anything involving bread, I always make sure it will not already be on it, likewise potatoes. There is a certain amount of personal responsibility here, chefs cannot be expected to go through every single item surely

My point was I don't have an allergy or an intolerance of chillies but I don't like them, would not have chosen this "jam" and don't want them to appear on my food unannounced. It's was something people could either like or dislike after all.

This is a business. They will lose money if they send it back and they have every chance the customers will not return and the word of mouth assessment they pass on will not be positive. If they wanted to offer it many cafes and restaurants put it in a little pot on the side or offer you a choice. It is not the chefs' job to go rogue and add just what he feels like if it's not on the menu.

It's not getting through, I know, but THEY ARE THE CUSTOMERS AND THIS IS A BUSINESS. They haven't just popped round to your house for lunch.

Well, what’s the point of having a chef if all you want a cafe to do is put a slice of brie and a rasher of bacon between two bits of bread?

I have sympathy with those who have allergies or food sensitivities. They usually have the good sense to make the chef aware of these. Picky eaters who say nothing when they order and then moan after they have been served with something because they don’t like the garnish, and then try to dress up their pickiness with self-righteous ‘concern’ for people who have real problems, should stay at home and prepare their own food.

My point was I don't have an allergy or an intolerance of chillies but I don't like them, would not have chosen this "jam" and don't want them to appear on my food unannounced. It's was something people could either like or dislike after all.

I'm completely with Pippa on this one. It's not as though chilli jam was such an insignificant part of the sandwich that it couldn't have been included in the description. (I'd have hated it, too..)

And I understand the OP's point about allergies. It would be possible to scan a menu and choose something that would appear to be absolutely safe then get a nasty shock on eating an undisclosed ingredient.

I don't see what is wrong with proposing a hypothetical situation for discussion, either.

Well, what’s the point of having a chef if all you want a cafe to do is put a slice of brie and a rasher of bacon between two bits of bread?

I could do with an almighty 'eye roll' emoji.

All the cafe has to do is mention the twiddly bits. Like:

'Bacon and Brie sandwich with Chilli Jam'.

It's not difficult...

I would have sent it back, can’t stand chilli and the way people think you should put it in everything, even shepherds pie. My daughter has an serious allergy, and always questions the staff, re allergen, who if they are unsure, will check with the chef.