Christmas and MIL in general

Thank you Star. I don’t think so, I think he was disappointed they weren’t coming after they had said they were, but overall prefers for us to be on our own. And even though they live a long way away, and even if we have plans, they have a key and we always welcome them. But yes you are right he probably needs some space from them after some disappointment lately and maybe me too, or maybe to set some boundaries as we’ve never done that before. It’s all so difficult and new territory for us both. He’s a great husband and supports whatever decisions I make and vice versa, so we’ll get there with minimal disruption I hope.

Yes, she might have forgotten she said yes, Pixie. Dementia often begins with the person forgetting recent things, including conversations.

Good idea to talk to fil and see if he can shed any light.

But again, you say dh prefers Xmas with just your own little family. Do you think this came through when he "brought it up?" Could that be why they suddenly changed their minds? If he "hates" the idea of an alternate date in January because you "see each other so much anyway," maybe they're picking up a bad vibe from him?

I don't think dh is as excited as you about their visits, especially around Xmas. Imo, you and dh need to have a thorough, honest conversation about how you feel about your ils visits. You need to really listen. "I would rather it be just us" also means, "I'm NOT excited about their coming because I don't want them here." If that's the case, then you can plan accordingly and maybe stop inviting them for Xmas.

In fact, it sounds to me as if dh needs some space from them. Maybe you need to cut back on visits, in general, for a while.

Thank you lemongrove, yes I think this is a very good idea. Just take a little break and go quiet for a bit. Maybe it is better for us all for me to step back a little. I often hide little gifts in her house when we visit, and then tell her to look for one if she is ever sad, so I can do that if need be.

You sound like a great DIL Pixie
Leave things to go quiet for a bit and see what happens?

Just had a thought... if it is the start of dementia...maybe she forgot she’d said yes?

Just to clarify, I do apologise if I wasn’t very clear about it, they have not been to us every year, just the past two years, which we all thoroughly enjoyed and created lots of happy memories together - my upset was more the fact they had accepted our invitation and even said ‘wouldn’t miss it for the world’ and subsequently declined when it was brought up in conversation by my husband last month.

Thank you lulu, that is so kind. Yes good idea about speaking to FIL, I will ask my husband if he also thinks that is a good idea. They want to do a second Christmas in January but my husband hates that idea as we see each other so much anyway, and why not just do christmas in his opinion. Like many of you suggest, there’s almost definitely something unspoken going on, whether worrying about upsetting her other son, getting older, some dementia or something else.

Newatthis, thank you, Id love to ask her but I don’t want to upset her as she is a very sensitive soul and I’m the person she relies on emotionally for her health and lots of other things in her life so it’s really tricky.

Carol for you to write such kind supportive words means a lot and shows you are a really lovely lady, thank you. Yes there’s a really sad back story, we have learned to build our lives around the difficulties, as a lot of us women do when troubles affect us.

Holly actually you have described our christmasses together, very chilled! and no screaming! We are very laid back. And it’s not been like this for years. I think we’ve ascertained something else is going on.

Rizlett, thanks again, I’ll take a look at that book!

Starlady you are very kind, thank you ever so much. And you are right, I’ve had so much great advice and food for thought. I wouldn’t have minded if they declined when first invited, it’s that they had said yes and we all got excited and then all of a sudden they said no which took us by surprise and we only found out their change in decision when we brought it up. I apologise if I didn’t make that clear when describing my dilemma. Very good thoughts about not competing but comparing and changing this viewpoint. It’s hard because MIL often compares us to them (us positively); however I don’t engage when those comments are made as although the SIL is indeed awful (you are very right!) I don’t want to create any negativity or engage in drama, it’s been awful enough for the past however many years with what SIL has done to the extended family. I will use your advice though and say to my husband that we should give what feels right for us, I hadn’t thought about it in that way before. Thank you.

Pixie, you sound like a wonderful dil! Imo, any mil/fil would be lucky to have you! I'm sure your ila know this, and I'm sorry if they don't seem to be responding as warmly of late. (((Hugs)))

I think you've gotten some excellent advice here. Just some additional thoughts...

Have you ever heard the saying "An invitation isn't a summons?" Mil & fil aren't obligated to come to you for Christmas, even if they always have before. Nor do they have to give you a reason why not though they did, which was nice of them. If you accept that it's ok for them to decline, you may feel better.

You and dh may not be "competing" with bil and sil, but you are comparing a lot. That will do nothing but hurt you. Please do for/give to your pils whatever feels right to you and dh - no strings and no concern for what bil and family do/give. If you're not comfortable with how much you're doing/giving, however, then, by all means cut back.

You're sil sounds awful, and I'm sorry if she and bil have hurt mil. But besides what others have said about a mum loving all her children, mil might not want to feel she's "punishing" bil or his kids, her other gc, for what sil does.

That said, it's not unusual for an ac and family to celebrate a holiday with one set of parents/pils on an alternate day, as bil and family have done. Remember, they probably have sil's parents to celebrate with also. Or they might prefer to spend Christmas at home and see each set of gps on an alternate day. I'm so sorry that your own parents are gone. But if they were here, you might be doing some alternate days, yourselves. You can't really judge what another couple does according to your own circumstances and choices, etc - another reason not to compare.

Imo, bil is unreasonable to object to your ils seeing you and yours on Christmas if his family doesn't want to see them. But perhaps it's about this 10-year rift? Maybe he wants your pils to take sides/side with him? Very immature and unfair, but it might explain it.

"It would be lovely to have a Christmas just us four and much less stressful, in fact it is my husband’s preference.:

Perhaps your ils realize it's dh's preference and are responding to that. As others have said, it's hard to know. But please don't assume it's a negative reason.

Have a great Christmas! Plan a few special "just for us" things you wouldn't do if your ils were there. Start some new traditions. Maybe let the kids hang out in their (Christmas) pjs all day. If there's snow outside, go sledding or have a family snowball fight. This may turn out to be your "best Christmas ever!"

Perhaps this year you and your family may decide to choose the Christmas you want - without wondering what other people think of you. [after all they are just thoughts - and who really knows what anyone else is thinking anyway?]

Maybe try the book 'From Stress To Stillness' if you want to find out more.

Perhaps they just fancy a quiet Christmas on their own with no-one to worry about. Perhaps they'd quite like a leisurely day getting up late, lazing about, dinner at no particular time, opening presents together, sprawling in armchairs watching whatever is on the TV, eating nuts, oranges and Christmas cake washed down with a Christmas drink and falling asleep. Yes, Christmas is about children, and of course they love yours, but over excited children running around screaming can be a pain. Then you sit in someone else's overheated house eating their choice of menu, cooked their way, help clear up and then perhaps all play games with the over excited annoying children. It's all pretty exhausting. Don't be so precious about Christmastime, your fairy story Christmas isn't for everyone, and remember they've done YOUR Christmas for years - give them a break.

PixieKitty you sound such a lovely, caring young woman putting everybody else before yourself. There's obviously quite a sad back story here that you've been dealing with. I would let them do what they want on Christmas Day (but be prepared in case they change their minds!) and then have a lovely celebration with them at another time. Try to turn a blind eye to MiL's unkindness if you can and try not to worry about it. And - REALLY IMPORTANT - please be kind to yourself!

Pixie in answer to your question, there is nothing any of my children could do that would stop me loving them.

I think the best thing to do is to ask her why? there may be some underlying cause for it. Also tell her how much you like your relationship and how lucky you feel but feel as though it is changing and ask her if she feels the same and if so why and how can you work together to resolve things and get things back on track.

You sound such a lovely lady and a lot of gransnetters would be delighted to have a daughter in law like you, you have tried your best so I wonder if for this year you take them at their word, certainly for the time being and let them have Christmas day at home, this does happen as people get older, although they are not that old. Could it be that with FIL's op the other year and perhaps MIL getting a little forgetful they would feel happier at home? If they are going to your BIL's the week before maybe they do feel that is enough. I think somebody mentioned your OH having a word with his father about mum maybe there is something going on which they are reluctant to share. Good luck and if it comes to it enjoy a happy Christmas with your OH and children, you do your bit the rest of the year.

Willa, thank you. Unfortunately it is BIL’s wife who has caused a massive rift and so MIL tolerates her to see her son and the grandchildren and the wider family, us included, are aware of this fact. It is something we have accepted, because it is her son at the end of the day, but it is horrible to see how my MIL is treated by them sometimes (they have made her cry so many times and even thought of suicide twice) and there’s nothing we can do. The wider family doesn’t tolerate it and actively avoids them, as she has played mind games with MIL (who is easily influenced because she is kind hearted), and other family members too.

Oh wow, thank you everyone who has posted since I last did. You all have some really valid and thought-provoking points. Some comments also have brought me to tears with your kindness and wisdom.

Bridgeit, thank you, I do want to know why, it is often the thing that hurts us most, the not knowing isn’t it.

Jane, you have hit the nail on the head really. My husband says too many people take me for granted but I can’t help it. I do need to work on sometimes doing what I want from time to time, it just doesn’t sit very well if I know others might be upset with a decision I’ve made. It would be lovely to have a Christmas just us four and much less stressful, in fact it is my husband’s preference. So many times in the past 15 years where we are second best (even where we have been cancelled in preference to them attending because they are so on-off) and I have swallowed that up and accepted it, to reach out for advice means I’ve reached a point where I can’t carry on as things are.

Crafting, I understand it is so tough being her. Society in general seems see mums spending more energy on the difficult child rather than the good one, the person who shouts the loudest and complains in life, the one who works less hard at work rather than the boss praising the competent. It’s all a bit backwards to me.

PaddyAnn, they love spending time with our children the rest of the year and are retired and always ask when we are all meeting up next. You might be right though, Christmas Day itself might be too much. That’s lovely what you did for your parents.

Zorro thank you for your kind words. I am sorry you have had a similar experience with rejection, we all just want to feel included and loved don’t we. I will try my best to put on a brave face.

ajanela, yes you have also hit a truth here. My BIL’s wife stopped my BIL seeing his brother (my husband) as she claimed he was taking him away from her or something along those lines and also I believe this is similar on and off with my MIL so I can see she has to do what they request. It is a shame we have to suffer as a result and hard sometimes to keep being the steady consistent one. I am sorry you have also experienced how being very loving and giving compared to another relative isn’t always fair or just.

Coconut, thank you for your kind response and wise words. Perhaps a letter is what it needs, I can write it kindly and with love and she could see my viewpoint, I just don’t want to upset her. I do wonder that if it won’t achieve anything (she will be on this rollercoaster with her other son for the rest of her life) then there may not be much point putting her through potentional hurt. I will have a think about it as it does seem a very good suggestion to help me, maybe even if I write it to her but don’t send it to her. The smirk was so out of character it took me by complete surprise, and I’m not quick on my feet so often just let people say things to me, again, a life skill I need to work on.

Sackett, you seem like a wonderful MIL, just like mine is. You seem so respectful of their wishes and yet help out with taking the stress out of raising a family. I would like to say your family are very lucky to have you in their lives. Thank you for you kind words.

Dragonfly, it is human nature isn’t it, I just wish it wasn’t so (see my earlier comment about society). Maybe after reading this you could spend a bit more time with your kinder child and family as I know it would mean lots to them Also yes very interesting point, one which Milly and IngeJones have also mentioned after your comment. She is becoming more forgetful of late, and does repeat conversations or ask questions when we told her only the day before. Perhaps this is something I have overlooked, thank you to all who said this. It could explain a lot.

Radical, yes very good points you have raised. They perhaps are getting older and like things done their own way at their own pace, and life is changing. I feel sad if it is the start of them getting more unwell/dementia etc. It is part of life and I need to ride that wave as it approaches. Yes, I do tend to overinvest, it is my weakness, as I then feel hurt sometimes, and I need to work on it to feel happier in these situations. Thank you.

Chris good idea to ask FIL, he will have noticed and perhaps my husband could ask him in confidence.

Rizlett, you have given me some home truths, but said it kindly. You have described me very well without knowing me and explained what I need to focus on. I’m just not sure where to start, it seems so alien to me but I know it is necessary. Thank you so much.

Daisy, yes some things may have been festering and we may have been completely unaware. Although we are in such regular contact, I think we would have known if something was wrong, but then again if I think back just a few months perhaps it is her memory and mental health that is failing her. And I’ll be there to support her if that is the case. Nothing she does will push me away completely.

Thanks everyone, really really grateful for all of your collective knowledge and experience so far.

My husband is tired of investing so much time and effort into the relationship with his parents compared to his brother and getting treated equally and so he wants to now after many many years, back away, I’m not sure that is the answer.

Has your husband invested the same amount of time and effort into a relationship with his brother? I say this, because sibling rivalry could be the root of all your problems!

The fact that your DH and your BIL have had a falling out for ten years has likely been making things quite difficult for your MIL, especially during the holidays.

Your MIL sounds like someone who has more than enough love to accommodate everyone, yet her own sons are tearing her apart. Remember too that Christmas is a time of generosity and forgiveness. She's probably making an effort to be impartial by staying at home and spending Christmas alone.

I don't know how big of a house your in laws have, but she could host Christmas and invite both your families. After ten years, perhaps it's time for a heartfelt talk with her 'boys'. She could remind them that they are brothers who need to stop counting, measuring and competing and begin loving, forgiving and sharing their lives instead.
It's time to bury the hatchet...Life is too short!

It is difficult to know what makes someone change 'suddenly' - I put that in inverted commas because it may be something that has been festering. I had lunch with an old friend (A) the other day and said that I wanted to invite her and her husband to supper with another couple (B + husband) (very old friends of hers) and she immediately said she wouldn't come. I was very surprised and when I asked her why she had some nonsense about the last time they saw each other (six months ago) B had failed to ask A about her holiday. As people get older and possibly have less to do they imagine slights where none exist and brood on silly things. Is it possible that something like that has happened here. You sound like such a lovely family and a great DIL. It might be worth writing to her just to ask if you have done anything to offend her as it could well be just a misunderstanding.

I am now after being treated like this after often putting my own happiness second.

This sentence stood out for me from your pp op - and you might want to put on a suit of amour here.

You're allowed to put your happiness first. This is an essential life skill that we all need to learn. Putting yourself first is the way to find happiness because once you do that then you don't begrudge what anyone else does. You are responsible for your own happiness. No one else can be.

It's not really your business what your MIL does or doesn't do with anyone else. Love her enough to give her the freedom to make her choices without you judging. Learn this with her so that you can apply this to your children as they grow up.

It's time to stop sacrificing what you want to do to make other people like you more. It's time to stop allowing other people to influence your feelings. You are lovely enough without doing all this people pleasing.

I wonder is your MIL showing any other signs of a.personnality change? Sometimes when a medical problem is first appearing the family closest are the first to see a change sometimes not for the best. Maybe talk to your FIL in confidence and see if he has any worries. These slight changes could be anything maybe earlier dementia for example? Not for one minute suggesting it is but it's worth asking him if she is ok.

When we over invest in other people we often feel let down or rejected. Sounds to me, like MIL is stuggling a bit to keep pace with it all. Take pressure of her and yourself by making things more low key and spontaneous.

As people age the big family Christmas thing can remove them from the preference to have a little peace and quiet and being in someone else's house can be a strain.

You are feeling that she has changed, maybe she has, maybe she is ill, maybe you just are seeing things differently because they are changing. Change is part of life and we don't always like it but it happens.

I was thinking similarly to Milly. Don't do any kneejerk reactions - obviously protect your children from anything that might disturb them or make them feel guilty (like "oh you're leaving your nanny") or at least tell them even if you're not sure it's true that "Nanny might be getting something wrong with her in her head, it's not her fault or ours" and otherwise just carry on as you were.

I am sorry for the hurt you are feeling, but just wonder as she seems to have a slight change of personality whether it is the start of a dementia type illness, in which case it is nothing personal to you. Living as I do in Retirement Flats I see a lot of this unfortunately.

I agree with what the others have said. I am a granny in a similar situation with my two children. I am happily accepted by one and have to walk on eggshells with the other so by default I try much harder not to upset the difficult one and try to do what they want. It is wrong I know but it is human nature. On another note maybe your MiL has a medical problem which is changing her attitude - the beginnings of dementia?

PixieKitty.
I have to say you sound like a very thoughtful and considerate DIL, families and Christmas can be tricky in all sorts of ways. I don't think you can do more than you have, and yes, send your usual Christmas invitation and hope for the best. I am at an age where I have 2 young grandchildren and two elderly parents. In the past, for many years, we, with my brother and family would always be together for Christmas dinner at least, but as families grow and parents age things change. My parents now prefer to spend Christmas day alone, and enjoy it without the frictions (and kids) running around. I now catch up and spend Boxing Day either at their place or mine. At the other end of the scale I live in an annex in my younger daughers (long) back garden I have been full time carer for both my grandchildren until they started school. Obviously this situation creates a very strong bond with grandchildren BUT even so, as a MIL I do not expect to be invited up to their house for Christmas Day, I know I am a great help to them but also can see there are times they wish I wasn't so attached! and will make my own plans and fit around theirs with no hard feelings. Your BIL just isn't as sensitive as you, and who knows what conversations go on between him and your MIL. Of course to sit an discuss it calmly while you are together may make it clearer for you, it maybe worth a try. But whatever happens or doesn't happen I don't think you should spend another moment trying to solve this problem as it is impossible for you to do it alone. You have tried very hard for a long time by the sound of things. I wish you and your family a VERY happy Christmas, be it with or without your MIL. Enjoy your children, they will be with Mum and Dad and have presents so they will be happy. Time to draw a line, it matters that YOU have a good time too remember that xxx

I didn’t read into this that you were MIL bashing at all, you came across as so caring. It’s a very sad situation and hard to apply logic when others are being illogical. If you feel that you cannot explain this face to face, I would send a letter just as you have put here. Reiterate your past closeness, do recognise the difficulties with the brother and say that you will respect any decision she makes even tho it does make you sad. Once it’s all out in the open, it’s really out of your control, so take a step back and just focus on your husband and children having an amazing time. Don’t let it take over your life as we cannot change others behaviour. Re the smirk situation, challenge things like that there and then. I don’t mean aggressively, just a “ have I offended you ?” Type question. If the children refer to absent grandparents, once again gentle honesty saying they are busy etc and just keep up the contact via phone, Skype etc Many Mums would give their right arm for a DIL as kind hearted as you ?