Has anyone mastered the art of saying No without the guilt that follows

He called you teo-faced, Serkeen, for getting housing advice about his dad when he was to be going to live with son? You should have said "Two-faced? But I am telling you about it and passing on the advice that I received. That isn't two-faced, it is open and clear. But as you are going to look after your dad's housing from now on I shan't worry about it any more. It is so nice to know that you have taken on that problem."

Sounds as though it is time he did some of his own worrying and left you to do what you want to..

PS to my earlier post,Just ask, yourself what would he do ( God forbid as they say) if suddenly you were unable to help in anyway at all. Well I can hazard a guess that he would survive & get by, so therefore he could do that now but he doesn’t have to. We can’t change others behaviour unless we change our own. He should be self respecting enough to not take the easy way out by leaning on you. This’s not meant to come across as critical, I believe many of us can easily get drawn into this situation.Tough love is called tough for that very reason. Perhaps draw up limits both on time & money ie , ie I can babysit once a week, & I can’t lend you money more than ( specified amount & no more once a month or what ever ) good luck

Just to add - it's interesting you say you are 'confused' by your sister's assessment. Why are you 'confused'? Can you not trust your own assessment?

Serkeen, I do hope you find yourself getting stronger as time goes on, and your son is less present in your life.

There are clearly many difficult aspects to this whole situation, perhaps going back to your son's childhood.

Your ex sounds weak and unkind, and you sound as if you feel responsible for the whole thing, or at least responsible for solving it, but of course this cannot be the case. Both your ex and your son are adults, they have agency, and the power of choice, and for whatever reason they have chosen to behave badly and cruelly.

It might help you to have some talking therapy, to work out how best to gain perspective and to preserve your own mental health. You can't change how your son behaves, but you can change how you respond to him.

Of course your sister is 100 per cent wrong! It's not a 'generational thing' at all. Many of us here have grown up children, and we would not expect to be treated badly, and to have these unpleasant, hurtful things done and said to us. My adult kids are not perfect at all but they would never ever hurt me like this. You are right to feel let down and disappointed by what he is doing.

One thing: I presume you are no longer supporting his family financially? That would be a good thing to stop now. If you have spare money for them, perhaps put it into account for the grandchildren.

Thank you for your support. After speaking to my sister I am confused she said that my son is being this way because he has difficulties that he needs to deal with like bills and responsibility, but I had those things and never were I dis respectful towards my parents, my sister seems to think it is a generational thing maybe it is but it is not acceptable to me. Oh well we shall move on and not dwell..

Sorry to say, your youngest son sounds like a control freak and a user, Serkeen. Not only does he want to spend your money, he wants to spend your life to his own advantage. The more you do , the more is expected of you. Stay on good terms with your DIL and GC and keep out of his way. Yours is such a sad story, I am sorry.

Cherrytree59 That's one of the reasons my x is an x he never did anything he just stood by when my son lived at home and abused us both but mainly me My son would say all sorts to me and my x husband would say nothing

Not a nice situation to be in but will handle it best I can my main concerns are for my grandchildren really.

Sarkeen I have been wondering how
you are as I remember your thread.
So sorry to read that you are still dealing with family issues
It is good news that you are able to have a relationship with your daughter in law and DGC.
I would hang on in there and keep that contact going and try to have as little to do with your son as possible.
As I said before it is more than possible that your son has anger issues.

As you seem to be on friendly terms as does your son with your X husband could you ask him to speak to your son re the verbal abusive language he is subjecting you to.

I have an absolutely horrid update, my youngest child actually called me two faced yesterday I can safely say that in my 55 years on this earth no one has ever called me two faced I do not think I will ever forgive him for saying that and at present am steering very clear of him.

He said I was two faced because I sought housing advice for my x husband but apparently I should have asked my sons permission first because my x husband is due to go and live with my son. So apparently I am two faced for doing that. Do you know how horrible that is and how low it got me to be told that by my supposedly own son.

There are no words for how upset this made me and the problem I have is the grandchildren I am ok with not seeing them AS LONG AS they are ok and happy but my granddaughter became clingy when I took her to school and she has never done that before and it was due to me steering clear of my son and so unfortunately that means not seeing my precious grandchildren its all so very very painful my son is a massive drama queen so I took to just dealing with my DIL with regards to the children which has worked very well I have no problem with her but then when I drop the children off I have to deal with my son and that's the difficult bit

I rarely say no but apart from babysitting one day a week for my youngest DD who is the only one with children they rarely ask for favours. They are very respectful of our time and I offer money which is usually accepted gratefully when I think it is useful but they never ask. If I had to say no they would be fine about it though.

we haven't been the most successful financially
I think your doing better than a lot of people if you can afford to give away £300 a month.

My youngest son told me today that he and my other child stay away from me and my husband as much as possible because we depress them both.

I don't understand why, maybe its because we haven't been the most successful financially, maybe because my husband and I are now planning our split, maybe because I sometime speak before I think. I don't know why I really don't but it hurt I just would like an explanation but they don't even come around anymore so there is not much chance of that happening and I would not ask either.

I just would like to know Why ..

Thank you cherrytree and thank you every one for the good advice

He has now decided not to talk to me, just me still talking to his dad because his dad never ever says no but sometimes I actually do

Someone said it was abuse, it sure feels like that and did respect I would never ever of spoke to my parents the way he speaks to us.

But I have now decided no more, if he does decide to start speaking again to me then things are going to be very different and if I am honest I feel a fool for doing so very much for him and not an ounce of gratitude.

What hurts the most whilst he is having his strop is not seeing my two grandchildren that hurts so much and it is when I get upset and become tearry. like now for instance, just talking about it makes me tearry. I don't know what to do about that

Sarkeen
This is not just a case of finding a way to say No to an adult child.
This is a case of an Adult Child who is displaying abusive behavior towards his parents

You are between a rock and a hard place.
Sadly in some families AC will use DGC as pawns or to gain leverage.

To put it bluntly your DS has anger issues.
Which need to be addressed.

If he his language is abusive towards you and your DH then he is probably using the same language at home.

I agree with Sarkeen that you will have to use your health as the reason for having to say No on some occasions.

My reaction would have been to end the call as soon as the shouting or abusive language started .
My advice would be to not engage in further conversations until his behavior is reasonable

Contact Age UK, explain that you need help with an abusive family member.
They may be able to help with contacts in the field.
Hopefully you will be given some coping strategies to put in place for the next time your son makes unreasonable demands
and/or has further outbursts.

Good luck

Instead of being put on the spot having to say yes or no, to babysitting , give them a list Specific dates/ days when you 'may be available ' good luck stay firm

Wow! Your husband is paying him £300 a month for his wife to sit at home on her arse all day?
And he has the bare faced cheek to make other demands of you and then complain??
How have you let it get this far?
You need to cut the cash and let him manage on his own for a while. He’s never going to respect you whilst you’re constantly solving his problems and bailing them both out.
If she needs a phone, she can pay for it herself.
You do realise that he will attempt to sponge off his siblings when you’re both long gone?
Sadly, I’ve seen it happen to others so try to resolve this whilst you still can and make him take full responsibility for his life choices.

Apologies typo .. ungratefulness, but think you may have worked that one out ..

Hi Folks just a rant and an update.

My son had the actual cheek to shout down the phone at myself and my DH ranting we don't help him enough,it would take a whole page to tell you how many ways we are helping him just couple I pay for his wife's monthly line rental, my husband gives him £300 A Month every month to help him pay his bills.. my DH had a belly full of this and said hey why not ask your mother in law for some help instead of us for a change and you would not believe the boys reply ..he said no I couldn't speak to her like that..Really! so it is ok to speak to us like that so angry.

I have two children and I don't know what happened with my youngest he is nothing like the rest of us, its quite awful if I am honest.

I have so had enough of his in gratefulness, his rudeness, his disregard towards us both

I am struggling to imagine just how manipulating some adult children appear to be, and how hard some people find it to say no, in real life as well as online.
I haven’t always lived near enough to help out much with grandchildren, without a great deal of planning, but now I do, their parents are always prepared to take no for an answer. They know I have a lot of activities of my own and would not expect me to give them up to babysit. Having said that, I will drop everything in an emergency.
Respect for each other is what counts.
Don’t people have babysitting circles anymore these days?

Have I got this right, you are told you are a bad parent if you say no.
Is you youngest an adult or a child. I assume he is an adult since you mention babysitting.
If you do not have the time or money then of course the answer is no. He is an adult and is responsible for his own life, does he believe you should still be supporting him.
He will never stand on his own feet if you keep propping him up.

Funny thing , when we were little , our DM would always say "I'll see". To us we knew she meant no. I used to also use the "I'll see" with my DC and got a resounding "yayyy"

I don't actually have this problem, as my children have declared me dead, but when they were children, the words they frequently heard from me were 'no does not mean yes in disguise'. Think about it

Recently feel that I was suckered in as I did not say, No.

It was our adult daughter's birthday and as she is single Mom, we invited her and the 3 children, plus son and his family another 2 children to dinner.

Then our daughter asked politely if we could not also invite her ex's parents, who play a big part in childcare too and live around the corner. Yes, I said.

Then the ex-mother-in-law calls to explain their daughter's husband has been staying with them for work access and could he not come too. Hesitantly I say yes, although I do point out that now we cannot all sit together as there will not be room, and it was a rather expensive menu (crab). Ex-mother-in-law says no worries she will buy the crab for extra guest. Yes, I say with no choice really. Then she also invites her daughter too.
I thought to then I was pretty good at the no.
No compensation for the crab, no wine or extras brought by the extra "guests". I am a little put out!
Next time, NO sorry. No not sorry!

I like it MissAdventure I am glad to hear that people do agree and you know it is not too late to do something about things.

Me personally I will slowly but surely do and get involved less and the main reason is my health. I do not want to be unwell due to the stress that I should not be having at my age.

Been so interesting hearing everyone's take on this.
Thank you

Hope everyone has a nice Christmas x x

I made that point because Serkeens son criticises her, telling her it will make her a better person.