Loving relationship with married adult DS?

This is great insight!

You cannot light yourself on fire to keep somebody else warm.

Google grey rocking - if she gets mad because you protect your privacy, it is not your problem

You are deep in the FOG.
It is not your responsibility for her to be included, it is your dh, her son.

How is therapy going?

I learnt something about myself and MIL.

I realized MIL only knows how to build relationships with people when she is in their personal space and has their personal information. She does tend to overshare as wel in some aspects.

I realised that’s why whenever she sees me it’s all about pushing boundaries trying to find out personal information through me or people that know me.. obsessively.. because she feels pushed out otherwise.. where as in reality she can build a relationship based on trust and kindness and keep the personal stuff for her son..

I empathise with the route cause even though her behaviour is very damaging to me. Because while I used to call her every week for chit chat, she used to pressure me to find out personal information and I used to not know how to handle it so ended up giving in.. that’s how she managed to violate my trust.. otherwise if I didn’t share she couldn’t have but I didn’t know how to assert that boundary..

She would go to my mother asking her personal things to confirm the information.. ask my DH.. seek my friends.. it was a bit stalkerish and I ended up feeling so violated and I assumed that she is doing this to sabbotage my marriage because she did on bad days use this information to Lerner our her jealousy and spread rumours..

I do feel violated but there is something I can do about this by communicating boundaries about my personal life... and agreeing that with DH.. it might make me feel in control and I don’t have to push her out of me and him agree on reasonable boundaries.

So for that, gransnetters, I need help. How do you respond to someone politely, or communicate when their behaviour is intrusive, how do you communicate that you don’t
Want to share personal information???

And how can I provide an alternative way of her “bonding” with me.. without putting myself in such a vulnerable position ?

She is now angry with me because she feels I’m keeping her at arms length.. which I am.. because she has no middle ground and when I did it on her terms she completely sabotaged me and my marriage.

What sort of chit chat do people have their in laws which doesn’t invite interference??? She is very judgemental and critical and looks for holes in people so I need neutral talk

I tried to talk about things like cooking and dishes but even that became a subject of her put down and scrutiny.

I’m trying not to be angry at her obsession to violate my personal space such as going through my laundry and my drawers and so on... it’s plain wrong I know but trying to see how she interpreted it as coming out of “love” as she says... trying to understand how she thinks so I don’t get so devastated when faced with it all....

I think I resolved it to the fact that she just doesn’t know how else to build relationships aside from expecting someone to overshare personal stuff.. because to her that’s an invitation of trust of some sort.. and her own son likes to keep his life private which makes it difficult for her..

So what can I do to help her feel included without making myself vulnerable ? What sort of small talk and chit chat do you have with your in laws that helps them feel part of the family !?

Thanks Hithere. I will try get myself into therapy as you are right I feel hugely lacking in the skills to face any backlash from me stating my basic boundaries and I don’t think DH knows how to manage the backlash either

You need to go to therapist and learn to put your needs first.

You need to listen to your instincts and find out what you want, independently from anybody else. What mil/dh/neighbour from 3 houses down is an input to be taken into account - as long as it is reasonable - but not the main factor in your decision making

There are NO magic words that you can use with your MIL that will make her understand your boundaries and avoid conflict.
It is impossible.
Only if you do everything she wants, as she wants it, the way she wants it with a smile in your face and you can read her mind, then maybe, only maybe, she will not complain about you. That's no way to live.

Go to a therapist. Find your self esteem and learn to trust your instincts.

It is easy to say - say no to MIL and kick her out of your home if she insults you but you have no skills right now to do that.

I have been where you are. There is light at the end of the tunnel.

Ok so on my journey of establishing boundaries I realised I’ve been escaping from everyone becsuse I don’t know how to assert them and follow through.

I don’t know how to put consequences with people who are so domineering.

I wonder how I can set consequence for violating respect boundaries, without creating drama. What kind of consequence can I communicate with my mother in law which she will be able to reason with without taking it like a threat or as a personal thing and sulk and turn into drama..

I keep wanting to entertain the idea of giving her a chance but not to be same as before with her where I have no boundaries and just trust her blindly, I want to give her s chance to be in a relationship with me and be able to communicate some expectations but while working on her attitude. I don’t think she will change at all because she is disrespectful.

I’m still just entertaining it because I want to have hope. But only if I don’t completely become the doormat.

What kind of boundaries can I communicate/DH communicates and what sort of consequences will not result in huge conflict and will I be able to manage to follow through knowing I’m in a weak position?

Maybe I can set those consequences with my DH.

“ your mother is welcome to come visit, and stay for two days a week, if she manages to respect me. If she doesn’t then I will leave you and her in the house and go recover at my mums?. If she does manage to show me respect and consideration to my opinion and not humiliate or undermine me, then maybe we can consider in later weeks if she can sleep over”

Is that me being a push over ?

Summerlove

On the contrary , but I’m
Hopefully growing in resilience, learning to not take things personal and not let other people’s drama suck the life out of me. I haven’t done perfectly this weekend but I managed to notice that I’m better than before

I hope your weekend has been stress free

All you need to do is establish a 'working relationship' with her, where you're both polite and respectful.

This is very true. I am still on a journey to try work out a way to WANT to have a working relationship with her at all because she has done soooo much things to hurt me that I’m struggling to keep In the past. But what I did realize is that there are two ways to react to people being disrespectful to you... either forgive them and reason it out if they’re generally reasonable, or protect yourself from their future disrespect by setting boundaries.

I am not able anymore to
Do the first option because I have reached the conclusion that she isn’t a reasonable fair woman.. and I wasn’t able to do the second option because DH isn’t ready... so I’m stuck in resentment not wanting s relationship..

But I have been contemplating all the advice on here. It’s certainly more kind to learn how to put boundaries because then I can allow a relationship to continue without being unkind to myself. But I really think this boundary need to start coming from
DH. Because if he isn’t ready, he will undermine my boundary and I will lose his support.

When you communicate them to her, get ready for anything. She is not a woman that will abide by your rules. She will scream, cry, rage, play the victim, etc. You and your dh need to give her consequences for her actions.

You are right.. I really need to lower my expectations.. if I do communicate boundaries and she ends up screaming and crying, which she certainly does do, I need to be ready to not let it get to me. I quickly end up questioning myself and whether I was being harsh.. so I just need to realise between me and DH that we need to grasp the bare minimum of what we reallt need for our marriage to work and realise that it’s a fair request and assert that... and not leave room for her to make us feel guilty..

I wish I did this before.. all I’ve been doing is avoiding conflict. I wish I did this before I’m due to have a baby..

But I guess having the confidence that We can manage the drama after we make a fair request, and contain it and not let’s it affect everyone.. will encourage us to be less of cowards when it comes to not giving in and insisting on our boundaries.

DH is a sweet guy but his DM knows how to push all his buttons.. she knows how to make him feel like utter shit.. how to make him react so she can turn it all on him... just so she gets her way..

He gets manipulated and has been from a young age. He wasn’t allowed to go out with friends as a twenty years old guy with her in floods of tears about what will happen to her if he goes into an accident. He wasn’t allowed to go on honeymoon with me with floods of tears about how she won’t cope without him for those two weeks... and how she needed to borrow our money..

We found it difficult to manage her negative emotions and gave in.. we enabled this as she seriously got used to it.. but I can’t blame myself too much because I thought DH knows what he is doing and that this is all too weird..

Flash bulb moment when you said I need to manage what I expect to be the outcome of setting boundaries.. it’s certainly true that I’m still somehow in denial that I’m dealing with someone unreasonable but that the situation is manageable One I’m
Realistic about what to expect..

I do have some growing up to do. Both me and DH. I hope I do so quickly before my children are affected..

I think she does see DH as a child.. and she saw me as a child too.. I guess we transformed into children in her presence. Because she was domineering.

But even children need their individuality respected and not be treated as possessions and since she isn’t capable of doing that she clearly needs to quickly see us as adults... and we need to grow up.

I guess some
Mothers are truly scared to see their kids fly because they don’t trust them to stay loyal to the nest.. and most likely, it’s because they feel insecure about their own nest. I don’t know what she has been through.. but what I do know is I can’t fix it.. and I can’t be the person she takes this out on.

Today I fell into my old me being a social secretary and told DH that I’m
Happy for him to video call his DM so she can speak to her grandchild after last time which was all so negative..

He wasn’t up for it so I told him it’s completely up to him but that I was feeling in a strong mood and that I didn’t want him calling her when I’m tired and me having to speak to her on the weekend and feel all so negative about how she spoke to me.

So we called her and it all went pleasant. She was being sweet and normal.. I guess we caught her on a good moment.

I guess humans are so so complicated. They have their good side. They have their bad side. And they have their unbearable side..

And I guess I need to work out what I can’t tolerate and the quicker I put those boundaries the quicker I would be able to have myself and my family enjoy her sweet and kind side... and push the bad side away from me.

I guess I could see today why boundaries are a lot kinder than just watching in silence and harboring resentment.

It’s just I hope me and DH work out a way to communicate them assertively without igniting things and making them worse and more dramatic. I guess we both have a lot more maturing to do still.

Anyway I spoke to DH and asked him what happened as things went well with his mother.. he told me that he had raised an issue with her about his siblings and how they have behaved towards me and him. He was reluctant to let her know what they did because he felt like a “snitch” but I encouraged him to because his siblings were painting us in a bad light and putting a lot of strain on my relationship with MIL. It’s a weird family dynamic where I get dragged in the middle of their bickering and get used as a tool for people to get their way.

Anyway, it seems MIL realized that yet again I’ve been the peaceful one and that me keeping my distance wasn’t out of spite but because her kids are actually being horrible to me.. and seems like now she is again nice to me.

I guess when family dynamics are so complex there are so many factors at play... and it’s not worth putting myself in a vulnerable position because somehow someone will find a way to make me a football in their little match.

Anyway I was quite happy with DH finally putting himself and us first and not enabling his siblings. I guess even if somehow I work out a way to dig deep and rebuild my relationship with his mother because at least I acknowledge she has done the impossible job of raising him, and so I can work through my hurt feelings and anger at some points... and give her a chance to make up for the mess and disrespect...

But I certainly don’t need to do that for his siblings. I was happy with DH that he at least worked out a way to not feel obliged to enable his sisters bad behaviour and that he told his mum that regardless of her expectations we won’t be tolerating that..

I had told him that him placing this boundary is enough for me to feel like it’s safe to move things forward. I told him I’m happy for him to do what he feels is necessary.. im ready to cook a meal and for him to invite his siblings over if they wanna see their nephew.. that so long as they know what’s unacceptable and that their are consequences and these consequences are enforced, that I’m happy to take it for the team if he feels this is what’s best for our marriage .

I feel like I’m being reasonable. It might sound like I’m toooo enabling. I think I’m passive by nature.. working on it. But I feel like immmoving forward. My husband needs help establishing boundaries.. it’s been such a painful journey for me. But I’m positive there will be progress..

I won’t establish 1-on-1 relationship with in laws until boundary communication is fully there and healthy. But I’ll support DH in his attempts when he is making progress..

I guess it’s gonna be a messy road ahead.

I’m any case, my attempt at inviting his siblings if he wants.. he told me that he doesn’t actually think it’s nevessary. That he feels his sister should learn to respect us.. and that he doesn’t owe it to his mother to be the “big brother” who looks out for everyone until his mother stops enabling the disrespect and the ganging up.

I feel a bit proud that I think he is gaining confidence in being good to his mother but without sacrificing us in the process.. and without putting unnecessary efforts when her
Expectations are frankly exploitative.

i feel less guilty because I know I’m not standing in anyone’s way, especially not DH. He is free to be the good son and brother he wants to be, but certainly not st my expense. And I think he is starting to realise this..

This isn’t your fault

Please don’t take on the guilt that it is

You may never understand your mother in law; humans are ridiculously complex.

All you need to do is establish a 'working relationship' with her, where you're both polite and respectful.

From that starting point, who knows, maybe liking and then loving may grow (eventually!)

You do not have a grudge.
You have legitimate reasons not to get along with your MIL, all of her doing.

"I feel like if I knew how to put boundaries from the start and if I was a bit more self respecting then things wouldn’t have reached this far and I would’ve been still able to maintain a nice relationship with in laws, within some reasonable boundaries.. but now that things got pushed sooo"

Talking to rational people, boundaries do work. Plenty of times, you do not even need boundaries because they are common sense and part of normal behaviour.

You say your MIL accused you of stealing her son.
That statement alone means she is off her rocker and no boundaries would have worked.
She does not recognize a child grow and has his own life.
Your MIL would have not liked any woman that her son would have picked. It is not you, it is not personal

Unless you and your dh stop your MIL on her tracks- whatever she wants are her expectations and her problem to manage them when they are not fulfilled - you will know of resentment and hate you will never manage to get over.

Your child is yours and your husband's, not hers

Your time and home is for you to manage, not for her to tell you what she plans to do with them.

I would first think what I want as a mother and wife. Your non negotiable and your hills to die on / deal breakers

Then talk to your dh and both agree on a plan for boundaries

When you communicate them to her, get ready for anything. She is not a woman that will abide by your rules. She will scream, cry, rage, play the victim, etc. You and your dh need to give her consequences for her actions.

If she really wants a relationship with you, your dh and your LO, she will cooperate and compromise. I wouldn't hold my breath though.

I sometimes blame myself.

I feel like if I knew how to put boundaries from the start and if I was a bit more self respecting then things wouldn’t have reached this far and I would’ve been still able to maintain a nice relationship with in laws, within some reasonable boundaries.. but now that things got pushed soooo far I feel so much resentment it’s so hard to go back and rebuild things mostly because some things were said that can’t be unsaid and done that can’t be undone and there is no hope of an apology and so I will hold this painful memory for life.

However part of me thinks, why should someone at this wise old age need to be told what the boundary is im no uncertain terms before they can behave respectfully. Surely respect is universal and not s personal matter.

I don’t know, I feel like even if I end up asserting boundaries and she ends up “forced to respect me” I don’t know if I can feel that kind of love I’m supposed to feel anymore... because I feel if she cared about my feelings she would’ve found it in her to respect me out of compassion and she would’ve found it in her to be concerned for my wellbeing when I was in an absolutely dreadful situation health-wise- instead of finding that as an opportunity to make digs at my marriage.

Genuinely, trying to find ways to give her the benefit of the doubt or be a bit neutral by finding possible interpretations that I might’ve missed but ...

What sort of possible misunderstanding would make a MIL want to disrespect you and your marriage.. in a way that lacks so much compassion and concern... while she claims to “love me”.

Is it possible that she just doesn’t know what love means?? I mean I keep thinking because she had a bad childhood maybe she still carries those issues with her. But what makes someone so oblivious to how hurtful they’re being with their disrespect.. surely they knew what they were doing ??

I’m really just loooking to understand so I can become a bit neutral. I don’t like having a grudge

HettyMaud

That’s totally understandable.

I am more than happy that my DS has a lovely partner. BUT I would love to see him on his OWN sometimes. That's what I miss. She's always there too..

Summerlove

Will look that up. I would benefit from that. I found online but they seem expensive and can’t afford that right now so might look st free content. Been really trying to train myself in that aspect but I do think she needs someone who is an expert at assertiveness and dealing manipulation and hoping I get there soon.

I can’t cancel the visit at all. But I told my DH repeatedly that she isn’t to be welcomed to stay at our house. She has her own place which is quite far from us but I can sense she wants to be staying over at mine to offer help with the baby, but I won’t pander to it.

My DH has brushed it away for now but I know under pressure he will crack and take the easy way. I guess I don’t trust his assertiveness skills at all.

I really don’t want to be having those arguments with DH while 2 weeks postpartum. I don’t want to be thinking about how to protect myself and not feel vulnerable when I should be focused on the baby. With the previous baby they totally tried stealing my attention and I ended up giving in because I wanted to avoid conflict and just focus on my child. I gave in horrendously..

Put up a fight with my DH and resented him.. even though he was trying his best.

I really feel drained to go through that again.

I think I need to schedule couple counseling before they arrive so that I avoided letting all this affect me and my marriage

My DS lives in the USA with his South Korean wife and her parents (back in S Korea) berate her for not looking after us enough! DS and DiL Skype every week and we are quite happy with that.

Aw stella1949 that’s lovely your truly blessed.i have three sons and they are all different youngest one still at home others married. Would love what you’ve got. Youngest one is the closest and does show his love in various ways but I know it’s the way of things for the married ones.

I’m not at that stage where I can have any assertive tone with her or a negative consequence aside from keeping my distance because naturally I can’t take it anymore. But that doesn’t seem to be working.

If you don’t feel you are at a place where you can stand up for yourself and be assertive, you need to cancel her visit. Otherwise she will run roughshod over you and rule your roost.

Can you look up assertiveness training in your area? I had to do it once for work and it was brilliant.

Giving her boundaries is a kindness. Because it allows her to remain in your life

Wow never saw it this way. I like that concept.

To clarify my DH has 2 weeks holiday to take. She was insisting he takes them before she comes.. because she doesn’t want him present when she baby sits. She wants unsupervised access to the child. Her excuse was that she thinks he needs to take it after his paternity leave to help me
Out. So I returned the favor and told DH I think he should take it when she is here to spend time with his mother.

The issue is if he isn’t present in the house she knows I’m a passive person and even though he is passive too but she likes to act in front of him that she loves me but when he isn’t here she ends up being quite rude behind his back and then making me look like I’m lying so DH doesn’t believe me. She ends up getting her way.

It is true the pp that mentioned it’s the same kind of triangulation little kids do to their parents. Very interesting I never saw it this way! Helps me empathize ! But I really do need to set some boundaries.

I am frustrated with myself because I don’t know how to set boundaries. DH like a pp Said is still figuring it out. He doesn’t wanna upset his mother. He wants to give it his all to try make it work. He has hope in this one big happy family dream and I can’t blame him and I need him to feel he tried his best.. but deep down some days I’m with him and other days I’m just not sure it will work unless he learns how to communicate boundaries.

I think I need to explain to him how it’s kind to put boundaries because it allows her to be more involved without the tension. But im a crap role model because I too have no clue how to put such boundaries because even though I do put boundaries she ends up really pushing and pushing until it becomes too awkward for me to keep repeating and I’m not at that stage where I can have any assertive tone with her or a negative consequence aside from keeping my distance because naturally I can’t take it anymore. But that doesn’t seem to be working.

I probably do need couples counseling. Need to register ASAP.

I am glad I asked on here. Even though you all confirmed that I need to stand up for myself, but the perspective on here paints her more as a human with issue and less as a cruel human being..

I struggle to understand manipulative behavior and to me it sounds extremely dark and haunting and scary to know im a little victim in someone’s big game. On Mumsnet the interpretation of MILs behavior and what I need to do to work on my relationship with DH is very overwhelming for me.. because it makes her out of this world which makes me completely lose control
Of the situation and confidence. And the only solution I’m offered is to LTB.

I wanted to hear from mothers of men, I want to try support myself and my husband do the right thing which is fair on everyone involved. Him, me and his mother. I don’t want to be absorbed with my own needs and feelings and forget everyone else.

I think gransnetters have the advantage of experience and time. In that even a negative experience might’ve had time pass by and let the emotions be processed until things can be seen from a logical angle as opposed from a reactive angle.

Thanks a lot for that. I wish I had my mother to turn to for this but she is a very weak human being and an abuse victim because of it and just doesn’t spot signs of manipulation and thinks as long as DH isn’t physically abusing me that he is a king, thinks im being dramatic and owe him my life because he isn’t as bad as what she went through.

So I prefer getting advice from anonymous ladies who will be honest about what it’s like to be a mother of older kids and what’s fair to be expected from a daughter in law.

OP, I say this kindly, but stand up for yourself.

There is no need to be unkind, but you are allowed to decide who visits your house and for how long. Any reasonable person understands that. If your mother-in-law kicks off, but that says everything you need to know about her. If people choose to believe her and her tantrum, then that tells you what you need to know about them. You do not need people in your life who don’t respect you.
Your child does not need to grow up seeing his grandmother disrespect you.

Please stop being so passive. All that will do is Because the relationship to be irreparably harmed. And you will never be able to forgive her. Giving her boundaries is a kindness. Because it allows her to remain in your life

I agree Alexa. They can't divorce us can they?

Untie the apron strings by all means , but your mother is forever your mother whereas a wife quite often becomes an ex-wife and "--- is nothing to do with me now". The quotation marks are because my son said that to me.

A month is far too long! You and DH need time to work things out, to bond, to establish your family unit without her input!

OP,

You have to be kidding me!
Do you want your mil to come for a full month, take over your (excuse me, HER) child, demand your dh takes vacation while she is there, she is not happy with the name, etc?

If that is what you want, be my guest.

She is taking over your life, your postpartum period (which is no joke. Recovering from birth is not easy), your dh's vacation to be with he AND you remain silent aka polite?

Boundaries will not work with her. Why do you keep chasing her? Making her feel included? You give her an inch she takes 100 miles.
Her entitlement has no bounds.

Start by saying no, before the visit

For example, you want her to come, but only for 2 weeks
"No, mil, you are welcome to stay for weeks"

Seriously, your dh and you are doormat. Stop letting your MIL tell you what to do and take control of your lives.