Over 70s

The selfish over 70s that are going to go out anyway will be subject to abuse,rightly so , from younger members of society.

We all know they do not have a strong immune system and will catch the virus,then they will spread it to those that have not written a ridiculous waiver that will not be complied with anyway.

NHS staff will be kind to you but inside they must be seething that you put their lives at risk just because you cant stay in.Shame on you.

No- I won't be happy to stay in lockdown for 12 - 18 months! Of course not! It's an appalling thought. But if it's necessary to do so then of course I will stay in lockdown.
Yes, there are stir crazy days, but the reality for most of us is we have both shelter, food, phones, emails, apps for staying in touch, plus TV, CDs, radios, books, etc etc for entertainment/learning. And we can go out in fresh air for exercise! My DM (Londoner) told me of her experiences of war-time, bombs, doodlebugs, no home, serious food rationing, blitz etc - what on earth are we moaning about?
All over the world there are the less privileged - those in the slums of major cities for example whose chances of social distancing to help beat the unseen killer are zilch, nil.
I cannot get my head around the mentality of anybody who think it's OK to flout guidelines designed for OUR own safety in our privileged society.

rosenoir

The selfish over 70s that are going to go out anyway will be subject to abuse,rightly so , from younger members of society.

Many young people are taking more risks because it doesn't affect them as much but they can still pass it on to older people. Everyone needs to take responsibility.
And if older people are asked to stay at home for a long time then society needs to have a strategy for looking after their mental health and physical needs.

Young people do seem to be taking more risks, the young often do. They should remember that young people can get this disease, and younger people have died from it. I keep remembering the lovely young nurse who died and left three young children. She was 37 I believe, the same age as my daughter, who is also a medic, and married to a medic, and with three young children the same. That beautiful young woman, it’s just so awful. A husband left and their three children without a mother. We must remember the advice is given to protect us, but also to protect our key workers, in shops, in factories, on farms, in hospitals, and in GP surgeries.

What about the elderly, trapped in poor housing on an incredibly small budget for whom company at the weekly lunch club is the highlight of their life? (The ones who could never be on GN because they have no access to technology.)

It seems that many on here are content to live in their comfortable houses with their garden space and wait until it is safe to go out. They don't seem to consider those who are less fortunate, they would condemn them to an indeterminate prison sentence.

I don't think much of the sort of community that would expect its vulnerable members to commit to a long period of isolation in order to protect itself.

I want a sensible plan of action, we should all be asking for that. I don't want to give anyone in this government an excuse for saying - well, the over 70s are alright anyway - so we'll leave them until last.

The over 70s do not have a strong immune system that is why they will be left until last.

It is possible to recover from mental health problems it is not possible to recover from death.

Missedout exactly what I am saying. You can't just forget about older people. Existing is not living.
Young people too need to realise even if they are ok they can still pass it on to vulnerable people. Many young folk, I believe, aren't worried about that and see the elderly as expendable. We are all important.

rosenoir, the lack of a properly functioning immune system is not exclusive to the over 70s? What should 'the community' do about my neighbour, in his 40s with a teenage family and his own business? Do you expect him to remain in isolation for the next year? He's not the only one, I have a poor immune system too but am one of the older (just into my 70s) members of an online group of patients with immune deficiencies including parents of immunocompromised babies.

Vaccines won't help us as we don't develop or retain antibodies but one of the problems of Covid19 is that it can switch on an aggressive immune response which can exacerbate the illness in all ages too. So what happens if your immune system can't respond? (Rhetorical question - no-one knows yet.)

And mental health problems can cause death.

There are going to have to be some exceptions to long term lockdown, that's why I want to see some sensible planning, which includes mitigation, taking place. It can't be one size fits all.

Rosenoir it's not always possible to recover from mental health problems. And the stress of being isolated for so long could cause stress which could affect physical health very badly. Plus it could exacerbate dementia. Older people deserve to be looked after as much as everyone else. I don't like the attitude that is developing towards the elderly. It certainly does not need encouraged.

A bit tongue in cheek here, but can someone tell me how we suddenly have a reduced immune system once we reach that 'magical' age of 70?
Why is 69 different to 70?

lincolnimp, it's just an age that's been chosen (conveniently) as most over 70s are retired. It really should be over 60's - as in Italy.

Hetty58 the same question would arise if it were 60, or any other arbitrary age---where is that hidden switch that is activated at the chosen age to make one more vulnerable the day one reaches that age?

Eglantine seems to be under the strange and totally false illusion that catching this virus is synonomous with death!!
Indeed, just about one percent of those that catch the virus actually die, and these figures are likely to improve as more and more is known about treating it.
Yes, older people and men and Bame and poorer people all have a higher risk rate - are all these to be kept in lockdown.
Do wish some people would stop over-reacting - do these people never go anywhere or have any visitors during horrific winter flu times (fifty thousand people in UK died from that disease in the winter months of 2017/2018).
Mental Health problems are not that easy to throw off and are likely to effect people very badly for the remainder of their lives.
Nobody is saying that we just return to our old way of lives immediately. It will probably take months to get back ther, maybe the rest of this year before such things as pubs, restaurants, theatres, cinemas and sports centres are open again.
BUT, as lockdown starts to ease it will need to be the same rules for all ages. Those who are Shielded will probably need to stay in their own homes (not necessarily indoors if they have gardens), until about end of June.
Please people, stop talking about this virus as if catching it is a death sentence. It most definitely is not and tens of thousands of people have had it, recovered and are back to normal lives. Many of them had such mild symptoms they were not even sure if it was the virus - which is why testing, testing and more testing is far more of the answer than isolation

It is rather too simplistic to state that the 50,000 excess winter deaths of 2017/18 were all caused by the flu virus. Fir some reason, there were more deaths from circulwtoryndiseasss, dementia and respiratory diseases, some caused by influenza.

The death rate for COVID19 is about 3.4% not 1% and the rate is higher in those over 70.

We do not know yet which groups may be more susceptible to the virus and much research will need to be carried out to find out who and why.

To say that ethnic minorities are poorer is far too simplistic too as many of those who have died from ethnic minority groups have been professional or business people.

Indeed they are, many of them are medics.

Do not think anyone has said that all Bame people are poor. Where did that come from Callestemon?
The fact that in the winter of 2017/2018 the official records show 50,000 deaths from Influenza, - but you obviously no better.
My point was that during that epidemic I most definitely not, and I assume you did not, lock yourself in your home. Yes, flu is also very infectious and also has a much higher morbitity rate on older people.

I don't think that lockdown COULD continue for 12 or 18 months.
There would be civil unrest if it was to be enforced (Impossible to monitor, in practical terms).
Also the effect on mental health does not bear thinking about.
Common Sense is not that common any more; especially in Westminster. The best ability there is scaremongering, rather than planning and thinking logically.