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Bereavement

Controlling daughter in law regarding the death of her father

(239 Posts)
Mal2 Sun 04-Sep-22 23:26:43

am a 66 year old single woman. I have 1 married son and 2 grandchildren.

I am writing this to try and understand why my daughter in law (DIL) is bitterly angry with me regarding the passing of her father.

I want to make this as brief as possible but it is a very sad and convoluted story…

I went to see father of my DIL who has been battling cancer after a bone marrow transplant.

I have 35 years of medical experience and upon seeing his condition I knew he needed to be in the hospital. I told his wife what I thought and also called my DIL to suggest admitting him, as I felt he was very sick.
5 days later he falls at home and both his wife and DIL are able to lift him up and drive to the hospital.
Once there, he was immediately admitted into ICU. His confirmed diagnosis was Sepsis.
From that point on, his condition deteriorated. He was intubated, given several antibiotics was in Septic Shock and finally passed away 19 days later.

This man was a wonderful human being and good friend to me.

4 days prior to his death, his family decided to have him extubated and placed in Comfort Care where he would die comfortably.
On this day the family said their goodbyes, fully expecting him to pass away within hours.
Because they all assumed that he would pass away quickly, my son and DIL told their children 6&8 years old that their grandfather had passed away.
The family was awaiting a call from from the hospital telling them he had passed. No call came. He was still alive and breathing on his own.

The prior evening I talked to my son who was tearful and told me they had said their goodbyes.
I was grieving as well and called the following day to see if I could join them as I wanted to see my son and comfort him. I was told no. My DIL and her mother were not wanting any visitors.

I had made plans to go and see this man on that Thursday. I work Monday thru Wednesday and Thursday was my first opportunity to do so.
I called the hospital to confirm that he was allowed visitors and was told yes.

I was relieved he was still alive as I needed to see him to say my goodbyes to help with my grieving and to gain closure.

While in his room a nurse came in and told me they were moving him out of ICU.
Thinking I was being helpful, I texted my son and let him know.
The following is the text I received. I have omitted titled all names with * symbol

“I am utterly shocked. I am asking that you never, ever tell ***that you visited him today. *** and * explicitly planned to be the last ones to be with him. *** is now not only painfully grieving, but now extremely angry. I am asking that you please do not contact either of them, and please leave now. **** already called the hospital and is taking ****back now. Again, * is not aware that anyone visited today and *** and I are asking that it must remain that way.”
I received 2 more texts asking for confirmation that I had left the hospital and ordering me to not contact them as they needed time and space due to the difficult position I put them in.

I was in total shock…
This angry text from my son is when I learned of his wife and mother in law’s “plan” to be the last ones to be with him.

I left the hospital sobbing. I was so confused.
By the time I got home, my confusion had turned to anger. Number one I was shocked to receive such a hateful text from my son and number 2 had no reasonable reason why…

I honored his order of not contacting him but not because he ordered me to but because if I had spoken to him I would have cut him to shreds with my tongue and knew that doing so would only compound the stress he was under.

My DIL’s father lived 4 more days.

I waited 2 weeks to contact my son and asked him to make arrangements to come and talk to me. He came yesterday and I finally had the answers I was looking for…

He told me that he and my DIL think that I overstepped my bounds and deliberately “ inserted” myself in the dying process and grief of her father…
He then told me that my DIL accused me of being selfish, self absorbed and was only thinking about myself…
I told my son that I only agreed with her 3rd accusation because , yes, I did go to see him because I needed to see him to say my goodbyes ease my grieving heart and to have closure. I then asked my son if he believed that wrongly inserted myself in their situation and he said yes. I asked him if be believes that I am selfish and self absorbed and he said no.

He told me that I should have called him and inform him of my plan to see his FIL. At this point I knew exactly what they wanted from me. I again told him I didn’t understand( even though I did) and decided that he was going to have to look me in the eye and tell me exactly why… he told me that I should have “asked” them if I could visit him. I asked him if they actually believed that I needed their permission to see him and he said yes…

I told him that I do not need anyone’s permission to do anything, including this. I told him that my visit with his FIL was between he and I only.

My son told me that he and my DIL assumed I had enough common sense to realize that when he told me over the phone that they said their goodbyes I was to understand that they were to be the last ones to see him…

I was dumbfounded and asked my son to explain to me just how I was to figure that out after only being told they had said their goodbyes…

He immediately admitted that it was wrong of him to assume I would figure it out.

I told him that his wife and MIL should have planned their “plan” a little more thoughtfully and made sure that anyone who wanted to say goodbye would not be able to. A sign on his door stating the family wanted no visitors…informing the hospital phone operators that for anyone who called was to be told that he was not taking visitors. I did call the hospital to make sure he was allowed visitors and I was told yes.

My son responded with this”. With all the stress they were under how can you possibly think that they would even think of doing that”
I told him that if their “plan” was that important to them, they should have thought it thru and took the proper steps to insure the plan remained uninterrupted.

My son then tells me that his wife and her mother decided ahead of time who they would or would not allow to see their dad and husband..
I told him that obviously I was one of the not allowed persons. He immediately regretted what came out of his mouth…
I laughed a little and told him that after learning this I am even happier that I went to see him and that I will NEVER regret my decision.

I was told that his wife does not want me to come to there house as her anger toward me is palatable. I told him I was just fine with that as I had no desire at all to see her but that I wanted and needed to see my grandchildren an he agreed to bring them to me.

I told my son to make sure his wife understands that I will NEVER compromise who I am and what my beliefs are to make her feel better. I told him the burden is on her to contact me.
I told him this will remain a situation where she and I will have to agree to disagree. I told him I have moved on and that If she wants to live in anger she owns the problem, not me.

I asked him if his wife is actively trying to ban me from their lives and he said no. That she told him she wants me in their lives and wants me to be a grandmother to their kids….
Not too sure I believe her though…

My son told me it is very hard being in the “ middle”. I went to him and hugged him and told him I loved him and he broke down and cried.

I posted this looking for answers as I truly believe I was within my rights whereas my DIL believes I was not…

Mamasperspective Thu 13-Jul-23 12:07:47

Wow, yes you have completely overstepped. You’ve told them they had to ‘think their plan through’ when they were going through such a hard time already? It’s their family member, NOT yours.

If you had asked to join them to say goodbye and were told no, so why did you think it was ok to independently arrange a visit?

Why not contact your son first to check this was ok with the family? I expect you didn’t do this as you suspected you would be told no.

My mother was in ICU for 4 days and I would have been livid if ‘friends’ just arranged to visit without checking with the closest family first (the ones facing the biggest loss) … luckily for my family and I, they were all supportive and considerate enough to do so.

Sorry but DIL is completely justified on this one. You need to sincerely apologise to DIL because if your complete disregard for her feelings and the feelings of her family continues, and you continue to disrespect your DIL you risk a future of losing contact with your grandchildren.

Unfortunately your message portrays a high level of ‘entitlement’ and that’s just not right.

Please ear a slice of humble pie and stop holding on to resentment for a family who has faced great loss within THEIR family. They have enough on their plate without you adding to the drama. Whether you accept it or not, your actions were selfish.

BlueBelle Tue 23-May-23 02:16:26

This post is 8 months old GrannyRose where did you resurrect it from and why?
I should think the poster is on the last chapter of the novel by now or maybe moved onto her latest book ‘Relationships and how to ruin them’

GrannyRose15 Tue 23-May-23 01:03:08

Have I got this right? This man’s loving daughter, wife and SIL said their goodbyes and then left this poor man to die on his own 4 days later. They couldn’t bring themselves to stay by his side and yet get very angry with someone who visited. I know who I think is in the wrong here and it isn’t the OP.

Allsorts Fri 23-Sep-22 21:51:50

Mal2, I read your post and have thought about it. Sometimes someone dying only wants to see immediate family, then you honour their wishes and tell people. You acted out of love and kindness. We need more if that in the world.Maybe your dil in time will recognise that. Grief affects people very differently. It is her problem I’m afraid, I would step back and hopefully continue to see your grandchildren. You don’t need a rift because sometimes they can’t be healed.

Starlyte Thu 22-Sep-22 14:35:07

People become unreasonable when they lose someone close to them. They consider the dying person as their possession, which I find terribly selfish.
I do not think you were acting unreasonably, as he was your friend, and if they wanted his last moments of possible awareness to be only for them, why weren't they there at his side till he actually died?
He was maybe dad/hubby, but not a possession, over whom they had entire right.
Your dilemma needs to get over her grief before she will understand anything.

M0nica Mon 19-Sep-22 18:18:24

Summerlove I am another in complete agreement with you.

Nanamary19 Mon 19-Sep-22 14:32:28

Sounds like there is something being left out from this post ....

Hithere Mon 12-Sep-22 22:53:37

Summerlove

Same here

Summerlove Mon 12-Sep-22 22:18:51

It could be my very best friend in the entire world - I would still ask their partner or child if it would be okay to visit.

No matter how close I feel to that person, I am still on the outside compared to a spouse or child.

Its a matter of respect for me. Respect for my friend and respect for their loved ones.

Calling the hospital and going around the family just feels sneaky.

icanhandthemback Mon 12-Sep-22 21:36:44

I wouldn't think to ask family if the person was a "good friend" to me as he'd been to the OP, especially when I'd been visiting him at his home during his illness.

Judging by the OP's self importance shown in her posts, it may well be that she wasn't the good friend she thought she was and that might be part of the reason the wife and daughter were so angry, Smileless2012. At the end of the day we only have one person's version of events so I guess you can only make judgements on the way they tell it.

Smileless2012 Mon 12-Sep-22 20:38:33

I'm not suggesting that it does M0nica, but the content and tone of the post shouldn't detract from its main focus ie was she right or wrong to visit without asking the families permission to do so.

M0nica Mon 12-Sep-22 20:23:34

The fact that in one point she is right, does not justify the content and tone of the rest of the post.

Smileless2012 Mon 12-Sep-22 20:12:14

Indeed Oldnproud believing that something has been understood isn't the same as being explicit to ensure that it will be.

I understand that many have found the OP's tone questionable M0nica but for me, that doesn't detract from the fact that she's been heavily criticised by her son, d.i.l., her son's m.i.l. and from posters here, for not asking for permission from the family before going to visit.

I don't think she was wrong.

M0nica Mon 12-Sep-22 20:04:49

Smileless2012 Sometimes it is not what you say, but the way that you say it. This does not apply to your posts but to that of the OP. Of course this story can be reduced to a tale that is simple and acceptable, but the key point is what the OP included in her first post, its tone and the way her sense of outrage at her treatment showed no sympathy or understanding for the deceased's nearest and dearest.

As I siad, sometimes it is not what you say, but the way that you say it, and in this case, the way that it was said, said so much.

Oldnproud Mon 12-Sep-22 20:01:47

I think it's fair to say from what we have been told that the dil and mil had most definitely not' been explicit in their desire to be the last people to be with the deceased.

Explicit: stated clearly and in detail, leaving no room for confusion or doubt

Smileless2012 Mon 12-Sep-22 19:51:25

I wouldn't think to ask family if the person was a "good friend" to me as he'd been to the OP, especially when I'd been visiting him at his home during his illness.

The text the OP received from her son said that his wife and m.i.l. had "explicitly planned to be the last ones to be with him". Bearing in mind the OP visited 4 days before he died, that gave ample opportunity for his wife and D to bring their plan to fruition, even though they'd already said their goodbyes.

So, I don't agree that them not seeing him again before he died is speculation from the OP. If they had seen him again, why the anger at the OP's visit? She wouldn't have been the last person to visit him would she.

Summerlove Mon 12-Sep-22 19:28:53

Personally, I find it odd to call the hospital about visiting instead of the family.

Id never visit without family permission.

VioletSky Mon 12-Sep-22 18:09:45

Pure specuation on OPs part. Unless she was asking the hospital who visited which would bot be acceptable.

They may not have communicated visits that happened after that due to the strain placed on the relationship by the behaviour described in the OP from the OPs perspective

Smileless2012 Mon 12-Sep-22 17:58:15

No I don't think that's what the OP meant Daddima. The wife and D had already said goodbye and having done so wanted to be the last ones, even though they hadn't planned on going back.

Daddima Mon 12-Sep-22 16:42:31

Smileless2012

I see what you're saying OurKid but still find it strange that so little has been said about this man's wife and D not seeing him once, during the last 3 days of his life.

But, didn’t the original post say one of the asterisked ones was going back? So, in that case they would have seen him.

( Though I don’t understand what she was angry about, as he was telling his mother not to tell his wife she had been to visit)

Smileless2012 Mon 12-Sep-22 16:13:44

I see what you're saying OurKid but still find it strange that so little has been said about this man's wife and D not seeing him once, during the last 3 days of his life.

OurKid1 Mon 12-Sep-22 15:31:31

Smileless2012

I am one of the few it appears, who doesn't think the OP did anything wrong by visiting her friend in hospital, after checking with the hospital that he was receiving visitors, but without asking his wife or D for their permission to do so.

I find it very strange that the OP has received so much criticism but little has been said about the fact that having said their goodbyes, despite this man dying 3 days later, neither his wife nor his D saw him again.

Smileless2012 - I think she may have received so much criticism because she has written what amounts to a short story justifying her actions. I'm not sure whether she was right or wrong to visit her friend; I am also not sure why she gave us chapter and verse, including her accomplishments - that is why I, for one, have doubts about the whole saga. A simple "I visited my friend in hospital, when the family had wanted to be the last to see him. Was I right?" would have sufficed, surely? Maybe a few SHORT details about the family dynamics, but a list of her skills, including making greeting cards - really?

OurKid1 Mon 12-Sep-22 15:25:01

Oldnproud

Norah

Oldnproud

I fail to see how 'two yes, one no' works, or at least works fairly

Question 1: Son asks " Should we stop contact with my mother?"
Son says no, his wife says yes, so contact continues.

Question 2. Son asks, "Shall we carry on having contact with my mother.?"
Son says yes, his wife says no, so contact ends.

Same basic question, but with a different outcome purely because of how it's worded!

In other words, whoever asks the question can't fail to get their way as long as they word it a certain way in the first place!

No.

Your Q1 they end contact (one no)

Your Q2 they end contact (one no)

It's brilliant as an argument solution.

Q1: The question was ' Shall we end contact?"

As i understand Two yes, one no, both would need to say "yes" for contact to end. In my example, they didn't. The son said "no", so contact continues.

I'm confused. confused

OurKid1 Mon 12-Sep-22 15:21:11

denbylover

Words fail, they truly do.

Oh. My. Goodness. So your ability to make lovely cards is relevant how ...

Smileless2012 Mon 12-Sep-22 13:43:59

I am one of the few it appears, who doesn't think the OP did anything wrong by visiting her friend in hospital, after checking with the hospital that he was receiving visitors, but without asking his wife or D for their permission to do so.

I find it very strange that the OP has received so much criticism but little has been said about the fact that having said their goodbyes, despite this man dying 3 days later, neither his wife nor his D saw him again.