Would welcome thoughts on FIL

Mostly, I am aghast at your sister-in-law clearing out her father's house, presumably, from your post, without his permission! That isn't going to get things off to a good start.

It's so very difficult to know what to do for the best. Removing someone from all they know and love is indeed a traumatic event. If your sil insists on moving her father closer by, is she prepared to spend the extra time and effort in helping him get to know people and make new routines etc?

Personally (my own 89yo mother is still living in her own home so I can imagine the situation) I'd be trying to make his life where he is now easier, along the lines you mention.

I think your SIL is being very high handed but perhaps she's worn out with being the close relative and feels she can't cope any more. I'm not sure you really have a say unless you're prepared to move closer and take the same amount of responsibility that she has. It's all too easy to be the helicopter relative who zooms in occasionally and gives their opinion on how things ought to be.
Will he cope with everything you've suggested or will it just give your SIL additional things for which he needs help and support? Who will get the call and have to go and fix it when a taxi isn't available for the appointment, the mobility scooter gets stuck at Tesco or the online shopping doesn't deliver what was ordered?

That's what I mean jayanna.....,we're not there on the ground. We don't feel that FIL should be bullied into moving though. He's in full possession of all his faculties - should the decision not be his? Suedonim-SIL is quite determined to have her way with little thought for others. She removed all MIL's jewellery from the house within 2 days of her death.

If I were him I would be furious with my daughter. She is entitled to her opinion on the best place for her Dad to live, she is not entitled to throw away his things without his permission or indeed dictate while he has capacity. Maybe try to put the brakes on things a bit? Your father in law is coping well enough, he can begin on line shopping relatively easily (he needs food wherever he lives) and use taxis and the bus for now. I take jay's point about potential need for intervention, but the need could occur wherever he lives. I suspect the accident scared your sister in law and she hasn't really thought things through. Is there any potential for a family conference? Or do you anticipate a row is inevitable? For what it's worth I think all your ideas for independent living are positive, but I would hasten slowly. Introduce the minimum for now and as each new thing is absorbed suggest the next helpful thing. Too much change could be overwhelming. Is there an Age UK visiting service in the area, could be helpful if your father in law is accepting of the idea. I hope it works out, he is still an active man, it would be sad for him to lose his home if he wants to keep it. Good luck.

I am really impressed that your FIL is still very active and able to look after himself. The whole family should be so thankful that he is in this position and your SIL should be ashamed of herself for interfering. He sounds really capable and should be receiving the support of everyone without any family member trying to destabilise him, even with the best intentions. I only wish my 89 year old Mum was as with-it instead of being in a nursing home and unable to recognise anyone.

Would he be agreeable to having a home help coming for three or four days a week for a couple of hours? It would take some of the everyday pressure from your SIL. My parents died relatively young so I had to deal with just a small amount of this but I see friends run ragged by parents who are determined to live independently when in fact they are doing no such thing, but are unaware of the demands they make in small, never ending ways.
On cousin was adamant that his mother should stay in her own home until his sister went on a four week cruise and he was the one who was responsible for his mother and dealing with her needs. None of which were enormous but he had no idea of cumulative impact until he experienced it for himself.
If you chose to influence your FILs decision I think you have to be prepared to take responsibility for your part in that and increase your contribution to maintaining his independence, don't you?

He already has home help/cleaner on two days a week, plus a gardener. He's had the same home help for years - she takes him out for lunch sometimes and they exchange Xmas presents. You won't find many like that. SIL isn't in to see him every day, she eats with him one evening after work and visits at weekend. He goes to his bowling club weekly plus his senior citizens club one afternoon and has gone back to Masonic Lodge meetings. He's also learned to cook since MIL died and eats well. Other than type 2 diabetes and deafness he has no major health issues. This is not a frail, doddery old man who requires daily attention from SIL, his main problem is that he's lost his transport, is still mourning the loss of his wife and his confidence has taken a knock after the accident. I have no intention of influencing him - I've said upthread that it has to be his decision as to where he lives. Why do I get the feeling jayanna that you think DH and I aren't pulling our weight? Support isn't all about practical issues you know.

I don't mean to imply that you don't care, just that people at a distance don't always realise what people on the ground do. Personally I don't think from what you've said that he should move, but I'm not the one there any more than you are. She must have her reasons for wanting him closer. Why not find out what they are. They might be valid. You might get a different view of how much she does. You feel that I'm attackng you in some way. I'm really not. But I am speaking about what I see when I look at my friends and relatives.

You're not looking at me or my relatives though jay and without going into too much detail we know the reasons she wants him closer. I think you can see from her behaviour re clearing his things/MIL's jewellery that SIL very much does things the way she wants with not much heed paid to the effect on others. FIL needs some respect given to his feelings and not treated like a child.

It's a difficult situation as your SiL obviously thinks she's doing everything with the best intentions. She sounds like a very efficient person!

What's your FiLs accommodation like? If it's a bungalow, with the help he has and his ability to cope there would be no point in him moving. But if it's a big rambling, cold, money pit of a house, perhaps SiL has a point and moving now would give him time to build up a new support network while he's still fit enough to cope.

Forty minutes tops away isn't very far. If he does need to move because his present home isn't really suitable perhaps he could move nearer SiL - say twenty minutes away - which would enable him to keep his present social network.

No I don't know any of you or what's gone on previously I agree. Like I said I was just relating your posting to what I see going on around me. Pensioners looking after pensioners. Are not infrequently it's the carers that have become ill and even died first. So my experiences colour my thinking as yours do for you. Your suggestions for maintaining his independence may work. I hope they do. But you are influencing his decision by doing this. If it causes a rift between him and his closest relative can you step into the breach?

He has a small bungalow backing onto open fields nfk, in a very quiet and secure location. jayanna-whether it influences his decision or not some things need to be put in place. Even if he finally decides to sell and move it could take months-what is he to do in the interim? Remain pretty much housebound? That's not reasonable and could be said to influence his decision the other way. I too have personal experience of caring for parents, neither of them particularly elderly but in poor health. I had to do this from a distance, travelling constantly, and I was as near to physical/mental/psychological collapse by the time my mother died as I could possibly be. I do not recommend my FIL staying in his own home without significant consideration for all parties.

Oh and there would be no rift....SIL has expectations as they say. She wouldn't jeopardise that.

Hope it all works out well for him and all of you?

Thanks jayanna, much appreciated.

My first thought was to condemn your SIL for getting rid of his things, but as you say, and I recall from dealing with my own M&D, it's very difficult and different when you're actually dealing with it. Still ... it's happened and the question is how to deal with that now.
He's already having some help, but I'm wondering whether the non-driving is really getting to him. A scooter-thing sounds like a good idea. I also wonder if there's some sort of volunteer driver scheme in his area. There is round here and it's great for a spot of shopping, getting to a club, or appointments, etc.
Have you talked to your SIL about what she's done and why? Or is the relationship a bit too delicate for that? I do understand if so. Family dynamics and 'expectations' are very difficult to deal with.
Have any of you been in touch with Age UK? They also may have a volunteer befriender/visitor scheme in that area?
I'm also wondering how much physical help your FIL needs. Is his 'feeling' that he's getting old and feeling the effects, or is he really in need of more help?
Sorry, this is a bit waffly as I'm typing as thoughts occur to me.
Good luck with it all. Your FIL is very lucky to have you caring about his mental well-being, which is what it's all about really.
Best wishes. x

I'm sorry - I'm another who is shocked that your SIL cleared out his home without permission. If I were him I'm afraid I'd start being really difficult - ideally finding a new OH which I suspect would put SIL's nose out of joint. He needs to be encouraged to be mobile, so a mobility scooter would be a fantastic idea.

If your FIL has all his faculties and is able to cope, it's his decision! SIL will just have to accept it. He's got his own life to lead the way he wants! Sounds like he's pretty much got it sorted. SIL though had no right to go through his things, let alone chuck anything out!

Perhaps you are really saying, in a veiled way, SIL is wanting his worldly goods for herself. She took the jewelry, pitched what she didn't like, and took who knows what else? If a greedy SIL is the problem I really believe your husband should sort with his sister, as soon as possible.

Uprooting him would be cruel. He seems to have everything set up to cope, well better than cope where he is. There is research that supports elders being moved, when they are not keen on the idea do go into a decline.

Is SIL frightened he will marry his home help, my sister was when our dad got one...........

Nothng must be done withut his consent however sensibe it may seem to other people.

The real blow for people is when they can't drive, men in particular hate it. I feel for him, lost my day a couple of years ago and he could not countenence the thought of not driving.

He sounds pretty clued up, let him be, to take him away from his memories is just cruel.

I hate and loathe how people do things for elderly people without asking them.. what's done is done now but as far as your own ideas, I think they sound good, but I would sit down nd chat with him about what he wants at the moment and help him with that. Once someone feels their life's not their own, they can start to deteriorate very fast. As long as mentally, he can make his own decisions, he should be allowed to do so-with some sensitive support as and when he wants it.

norah-you're not too far off the mark there, I think acquisitive would be the kindest description. She's the sort of person that if she takes in a newspaper for him she expects the £1 back. We're not talking a week's shopping and she's not in desperate need herself-I'm not comfortable with that behaviour. When MIL died my DH had to ask her for a memento and she chose a small item from the jewellery. He wasn't allowed to choose his own and it was entirely the wrong time to make a fuss so we let it pass. SIL also knows far too much about her father's financial affairs.

Katek
What a dilemma..
Fil, poor man, appears to be overwhelmed with good! intentions which have not taken into account what fil himself really wants.
Of course he will be confused and so would anyone who saw themselves under the guidance? control ??'of well meaning family when he may want to be left to do what he wants.
Ask your fil what he would like to do then offer him your assistance and be their for him when he wants you to be there not when you think you should be there
On the other hand do keep in touch by phone or email but let him have his space so he can keep his independence for as long as possible.

As I suspected. Time for DH to make sure his Dad's wishes are in a well accomplished will.

We prefer to spend, leaving only enough for care and burial, but your FIL may want otherwise?

No matter to you, not yours to decide, nor hers.