School parents join forces to fight ‘trans propaganda’

Indeed, Jayden Lowe bought hormones online and probably did not have access to adequate support.

Adequate support, though, shouldn't necessarily mean immediate access to hormone treatments in a form approved by the NHS.
It could mean support to explore the person's reasons for believing they are trans.

trisher I haven't seen any mention of whims or anything similar. Where have you seen this?

FarNorth, have NO fear. There is NEVER immediate support for trans issues. It takes years and multiple GP visits, psychologist appointments and hoop jumping.

Hence a desperate young man buying dangerous stuff off the internet, because help is SO hard to come by.

Or a desperate young woman believing, wrongly, that transitioning to male will be the answer to her distress, while all around her agree and give no thought to any other way to help her.

Without sensible counseling of the person, it's impossible to know which view is correct.

Doodledog, I can't see the logic in your worry about men being 'allowed' to use female loos. There is absolutely nothing stopping a man dressing as a woman and using them anyway. Nobody ever checks, do they?

That is my point. As long as men can self-identify (by dressing as a woman, or saying that that is how s/he feels that day) there will be those who exploit that. In loos, in prisons, in rape suites and in DV safe houses. Or in beauty salons - look at the Jessica Yannis case.

That is not to say that people should not be able to transition, and I have never suggested that they should be treated with anything other than compassion and helped medically if it is certain that this is what they want.

All I have said is that the whole issue is complicated.

FarNorth, this is where the psychologist comes in. Many, many appointments, making sure the patient really does have gender dysphoria. Nothing happens physically until the psychologist is 100% convinced.

Totally different set of circumstances, but I chose to have a double mastectomy 10 years ago, because I have a faulty gene (BRCA1). I had to see a psychologist weekly for months before the surgeon agreed. He had to make sure I was sure. Just for cancer prevention, it took 2 years. Far longer for trans surgery/hormones.

They don't go lopping penises off willy nilly (sorry, couldn't help the pun!).

Doodledog, we are all free to dress and present ourselves however we like - and always have been. The transgender issue therefore makes no difference to the safety of women in supposedly all-female environments.

I once went into a bank and was addressed as 'Sir' by the cashier. I was wearing a parka jacket (it was raining) and had my hair tied in a ponytail and no makeup on. I was mortified, especially as they had the form with 'Mrs' in their hand.

When I got home and looked in the mirror I understood that my face could easily be either male or female and I'm slim - so they had no visual clues!

I think if I went in dressed like that, they would think I was a fat man.

Hetty58 It's not just about dress. It is the fact that men can self-define.

Jessica Yaniv is suing a beauty salon in Canada because the beauticians have refused to wax his testicles. He defines as a woman, but has not transitioned, and has filed 16 complaints against the women in the salon, who have not been trained to wax male genitalia, and argue that female clients would be uncomfortable being treated next to an exposed man, however he self-defines. In this particular case, Yaniv has been exposed as a predatory paedophile, and the trans community in Canada have rejected him as 'not being really trans'.

Is this fair to the women (staff or clients) in the salon? Women are being expected to just step aside and let men into their spaces simply because the men have claimed to consider themselves female. This is a particularly high profile case; but there are many instances which are less obviously ridiculous.

The Gender Recognition Act is a minefield, and not because of bigotry or right-wing anything, which is particularly unfair on young people who genuinely want to (and need to) transition.

The issue is becoming increasingly binary, with people who question the massive increase in the number of young people coming forward as trans being derided as 'TERFS' (Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists) - there are even 'TERF blockers' on Twitter, so that their tweets cannot be heard.

My own view on all of this is, as I have said, is simply that it is complicated. My first instinct is to live and let live, and be supportive of young people (or older ones) who are unhappy, but I also feel that there are parts of the debate that are uncomfortable, but need to be considered.

Thanks Doodledog, your post expresses my own views.

But this isn't anything to do with that it is a small group of parents who apparently think schools and the parents of trans gender children are in some way letting those children down and allowing them to be brainwashed in some way. Teachers have dealt with so many things over the years they are committed to do their best for every child. And I think it has been stated many times on GN that the people who know a child best are their mother and father, and yet they are not to be allowed to make decisions about how their children are treated because they are trans gender? Apparently some other parents know better.
And it may surprise some to know that there are men dressing as women who have been using women's toilets for years without there being any problems.

LOL and AGAIN trisher!

Absolutely. I know men who look better as women, than women (and vice versa).

I don't think that transexualism is a whim. Back in the 1960s there was a younger girl at my school who, I am now convinced, believed that she was a boy. She was something of a school clown but when she was sixteen she took her own life. According to the newspaper reports she had only been offered antidepressants - which she used to kill herself. I am appalled that there are still people in this situation who see no other way out but suicide or experimenting with powerful pharmaceuticals without any medical supervision.

trisher wrote the people who know a child best are their mother and father, and yet they are not to be allowed to make decisions about how their children are treated because they are trans gender?

And from the opening post :

[Safe Schools Alliance] also says that children questioning their gender identity are being encouraged towards “drastic and irreversible” medical interventions such as drugs that block puberty. In some cases parents are not being told by schools that their children are asking to be treated as a different gender.
(my underlining)

It seems parents' views are only acceptable if they agree that the child is trans.
If parents don't immediately agree, or their views are not known, schools will take the initiative anyway.

For any grans on here thinking comfortably that this doesn't apply to their DGC, how would you know if they have a different name and identity in school?

I don't think any of this is a whim, btw.
Where has it been suggested that it is?

That would make parent's nights a bit difficult ....

Yes, it does.
Sometimes a parent finds out about their child's 'trans status' when the wrong name is used by a teacher at parents night.

You'd be hard-pushed to tell the difference as some women age !!

I genuinely think this is scare mongering. I have NEVER known of a school to overrule or fail to involve parents unless they have some sort of care order issued by social services.

A child under 16 is a minor and as such the school will automatically refer to parents. If they are afraid the child is at risk from the parents, they will contact social services.

There are no other models for this. Legal requirements.

We have this information on the back of EVERY door in my school. Any school not meeting these conditions is liable to be threatened with legal action.

Yes, students may have nicknames. But any child going by a name of the opposite gender (with staff) would automatically generate a student of concern referral. These referrals are done for a LOT less than this.

The student I teach currently that has an issue similar to this is under an extensive care program involving parents / social services and a counsellor. And this is LONG before there is any trans diagnosis or suggestion of anything other than talk therapy.

DoodledogI another here who agrees with you .good post

FarNorth could you post an example of that or is it just one of those urban myths again?
We all know there are extremists in every group of human beings but treating trans people badly because of some manipulative and self seeking individuals is the equivalent of treating heterosexuals as if they are all paedophiles. The extremists in any group do not speak for the majority and should not be regarded as typical.

Where are the parents in all of this? They are often not told if their child is worried about their gender. During my training, we were told to avoid ‘outing’ potential transgender children to their families. If the child so wished, we might want to keep mummy and daddy out of the loop. Un-believably, this is in line with Scottish government guidelines.

www.spectator.co.uk/2018/10/how-parents-are-being-shut-out-of-the-transgender-debate/

^^ The training referred to is supplied to schools by LGBT Youth Scotland - an organisation which receives funding from the Scottish Government.

In English schools, similar training takes place which is run by Mermaids - an organisation which also receives Government funding.

trisher which extremists do you mean?
If you are referring to Jonathan/Jessica Yaniv, this thread is not about him, it is about children and young people.

If anyone wants to discuss Yaniv, there is already a thread :

www.gransnet.com/forums/aibu/1263892-AIBU-to-mention-scrotum-waxing?pg=1&order=

Or you/they are free to start a new thread.

Mm one example in that from an American, from an unnamed school, from which she withdrew her child. Could have been any sort of school- private, free, alternative. American education comes in a lot of different forms and has sometimes very different priorities.
But actually I think at 16 or so children do start to make choices which may not comply with their parent's views. I would imagine most teachers would try to encourage the child to talk to their parents but if the parents came perhaps from a very traditional religious background it might be difficult. In that case the welfare of the child would be paramount.