Philpott Sentence

I thought they tend to put the violent prisoners in the same sort of prison. Prisons are categorised aren't they?

They put the really nasty characters up here Durham or Brasside

He wasn't convicted of murder was he?

Moved very short sentence prisoners come out automatically at the half-way stage - Automatic Date of Release - ADR. Over 12 month sentences, a risk assessment is done by prisons to determine whether prisoners can be released for home leave, hostel leave or on an electronic tag when they reach the relevant stage of their sentence, depending on whether they can be released safely. Violent and serious offenders are not allowed this privilege early in their sentence, only when they move to open conditions and have demonstrated progress in all the risk areas, such as substance abuse, attitude to offending, taking responsibility, behaviour in prison, problem-solving abilities and another 6 or 7 areas (Offender Assessment System - OASys - can be found on Google). If they abuse this privilege, they remain inside until their Latest Date of Release - LDR. That's the date beyond which it would be illegal to keep them in prison.

For those with long sentences, they have to work towards a Discretionary Date of Release - DCR. Many go past this date because of their attitude and behaviour. I don't know the statistics, but one group can't be compared with another.

Prison Governors (Grade 1) are personally responsible if they release a prisoner and they commit a further imprisonable offence.

I wonder if they had charged him with manslaughter instead of murder because they didn't think they could be sure of a conviction if it was a murder charge? Can anyone advise.

That should say 'if they release a prisoner before their Latest Date of Release and they commit a further imprisonable offence.'

Surely with murder you have to prove intent? That's why drunken drivers who kill never get charged with murder and hardly ever even manslaughter - isn't it something to do with mens rea- bell at back of mind.

Thanks when. Seems quite a responsibility for the PG, are the statistics held against them in any way? Glad I'm not in that job, wouldn't want that on my conscience.

Not so much statistics, but serious cases are reviewed by the Prison and Probation Ombudsman and the Home Secretary comes down on prison governors if they they fail to ensure risk has been properly managed. Several have been sacked over the years. I remember the governor of a Cat D open prison being marched off the premises by two home office officials, carrying his office belongings in a black refuse bag. That was something to do with prisoners dealing drugs in the prison.

We live and learn.

If we really want to. Learn, that is. (yawn)

Sorry! I'm sure everyone finds it really interesting.

Jingle, are you being rude because you are feeling left out of things?
I am very grateful for When's very informative posts about the prison service and I am sure I am not alone. I do find them very interesting.

Oh, were you having a go at me Jingle? Sorry, that went right over my head

So do I. When has so much knowledge about this type of thing.

Ignorance of the law a) is no defence and b) fires the knee jerk DMtype reactions of many people!

Philpot's record of aggression would seem to make it unlikely that he will be a model prisoner so not likely to get much positive consideration in 15 years time when he might be eligible to apply for release.

What is happening to his other 11 children?

Presumably they are living with their mothers

I am quietly hoping he might put us all out of our misery and take his own life. It seems to be on the cards for control freaks who kill, like Fred West and Dr Shipman. No tears cried for them.

Lully think about the poor people who find prisoners who take their own life. Prison officers have to try to cut off knotted sheets with fish knives whilst holding a dead body in case they can be resuscitated, or deal with pouring blood from cut arteries, and no matter how experienced they are, it is so traumatising that some don't recover. Suicide attempts in prison are so frequent that officers suffer stress and their family lives are damaged. (In 2007/8, for example there were 45 attempts a night!! in Styal prison). The Philpotts will be on suicide watch for some time to come.

" feeling left out of things?" What? Me? Never!!!

Everyone is of course upset and angry that six young lives have been lost in such horrible circumstances. But their parents have been punished and will have to live with the shame and guilt of what they've done for the rest of their lives - and the hatred of their families, former friends and just about everybody else.

So what purpose does all this vitriol serve? Can't we just be sad about the lives lost and hope that the remaining children can get over this horrible memory and get on with their lives?

An eye for an eye....
No?

Yes, I agree. Hence my question about the other 11 children - their lives must be shattered by this - and must have been difficult enough before.

It was absolutely and totally out of order of Osborne to try and capitalize on this, and link it to social services cuts, etc. Shameful. And I know such cases are rare, and are exploited by tv, the gutter Press, etc. Shameful.

An yet, I do hope we can have a sensible and sensitive discussion on how such (rare, yes, I know) people can go on to have 17 children and expect the State to care for them. Wouldn't it be better for the children themselves for it to be made harder. If he knew he couldn't get the State to pay for all, housing, etc, etc - he wouldn't have had so many, would he?
As said before, it just couldn't happen in most other countries.

Can we agree that Osborne and the gutter press were totally out of order - and yet ask the question. Probably not...

Eloethan what a relief to read your post with which I agree totally. Vitriol is the right word. Now we are even comparing Philpott with Fred West!!

Philpott is many things but he is not a murderer.

And as for those posters who want him to be attacked/tortured/killed in prison, words fail me.

Talk about bloody depressing.