On the subject of racism.

Stansgran - sadly knives are carried all too often these days and I guess if an innocent sounding water fight gets too big and out of control someone will draw one. However in the late 1950s one evening after leaving a coffee bar in Birmingham my bf and I were threatened by a knife carrying teddy boy. He'd been swinging a bottle on a string from a light fitting in the coffee bar basement and bf had untied the bottle. Bf stayed calm, I burst into tears at the sight of the knife and teddy boy strolled off. He must have thought his humiliation in front of his mates had been revenged.
Sad to have a GC who at 10 realised their mother is racist and became resigned to it.

Ridiculous thing for that friend to say, Washerwoman. Both my sons partners are immigrants and live up NORTH, as I do. We don't all hate immigrants.

Granjura, heard someone say today that Eurosceptics have been complaining for 41 years, yet they expect us, the 48%, to have got over it already.

I've read your post several times and I think the comparison just doesn't make sense. Someone's religion is quite a private matter and doesn't generally affect the lives of those around. Coming out of the EU though, will affect all deeply including the 48%.

When some of the Leave arguments are clearly flawed or racist, then it is fair enough to say so (like some of the examples given in videos- saying he voted LEAVE to get rid of Muslims, or another saying he wants 'no Muslamic here- and wants British for the British' - etc.

Well said Maddyone.Surely it's the Referendum on the whole plus other events in Europe that have thrown all the balls in the air,stirred up feelings -some racist and abhorrent- but my view is that had the vote been Remain the far right agitators would equally so have smashed in some windows,peddled racist filth and used it as an excuse to sound off.
My daughter, who voted remain,as did the majority of her 20 something friends8- but not all - has been shocked and by the patronising lecturing and berating on her social media group of those that voted Leave.She said to me mum how dare they.Would they continually try to convert someone to their religious convictions,or disrespect their faith.One of her friends is fundraising for refugee camps and organising an event.She posted the query should she hold it up north in her home town where family and friends are,or down south where she works..Back came a reply not up north ,they all hate immigrants.And that from a university graduate.so bigotry is alive in all sorts of areas .
I still like to believe vote Remain or Leave the vast majority of this country is fair minded and tolerant.And living in a large town with one of the highest immigrant populations from both the first wave of Commonwealth immigration,to recent Syrian refugees I
have witnessed countless acts of friendship and co-operation between different faiths ethnicities over the years.just wish those got reported and applauded more.

I live in an area with a high proportion of immigrants and an equally high proportion of appalling racist behaviour. Whereas before Brexit, the abusers merely spat out their vile remarks, nowadays, most of the slurs have a "Brexit themed" coda attached.

I have no intention of ever getting use to racism Gononsuch

Those people now feel vindicated in their views and are prepared to express them more openly that before as they think they are in the majority.

I think that's a good way of putting it, gand, and it's what I failed to say so clearly. The important words are "they think". Society needs to show them that they are not in the majority, not by a long way.
It's also why I said I hoped the 'outbreak' would be dealt with properly and soon, and/or that it would die out at least back to previous levels but hopefully further than that.

I think racism still exists in some young people but Minibags has already 'shed' a couple of friends after they made racist remarks and carried on even when challenged. Perhaps her generation are more willing to openly challenge people who make racist remarks. I hope so, so long as they don't put themselves in danger by doing so.

I did read that people in areas where there are few immigrants are the most concerned with regards immigration, because it's a sort of fear of the unknown.

I agree 'justification' is different to 'rationalisation' - but the margin can be very small. And to qualify the interpretation of that small margin as 'a poisonous injection' is indeed a step too far- and yet again a personal attack on dj and out of order.

To deny racist attacks have not increased and become bolder, in some parts of the UK, since Brexit- just because you've not seen it happen in your area- is also wrong. This has been well documented, by the Press, social media and totally backed by Police records. Denial could be construed as dangerous and disingenuous too- so I am glad the Police and GVT and local Councils have taken this on board.

GandTea- give Leicester a big hug from me. Yes, Leicester is a very special multicultural and tolerant, open town- and long may it survive, even in this post Brexit toxic atmosphere that prevails in parts of the UK.

It is never acceptable to make racist remarks. Whatever people think is their own business I guess, but it is never acceptable to make remarks, or behave in a vile manner towards towards those of a different race/religion, or those of your own race/religion for that matter. I also believe it is not acceptable to make comments regarding what a person in the referendum voted, I voted remain, but would not make any comment to anyone else about their vote. I'm not sure the Brexit vote has increased racism, I think it more likely the horrible news 're Syria, Nice, refugees, and now even Turkey, may have more to do with it, but I'm prepared for others to disagree with me.

Not everyone who voted to leave is racist, however I suspect that almost all that are racist voted to leave. Those people now feel vindicated in their views and are prepared to express them more openly that before as they think they are in the majority.

Also,IMO, it does depend upon where you live how obvious racism is.
It doesn't seem to matter what cultural mix one's area is, our village is mainly white English, with a number of Eastern Europeans working on farms and a handful of other ethnic families. YET I hear racist views quite often. We are in Leicester atm, a very multicultural mix, not aware of any racist undertones.

Let's hope our young people will me more tolerant.

Do you think this song is racist? It was very popular when it came out in 1969. But so was Alf Garnett!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HHT_V294Co

What about the upheavals in London? In Hyde Park. Is it just heat related all these stabbings?

Racism is here its always been here, so get use to it.

However,

I have noticed an increase in mixed race marriages, I've noticed that couples who live together don't mind about race, and my two grand children have mixed race friends.

So In my opinion, its getting better.

Has anybody claimed anywhere that all people who voted Leave are racist?

I find your comment about 'living in a multicultural utopia' a straw man argument.

Therefore it's the fault of Brexit DJ.really?That simple.Any racist crime is vile but do you seriously think that if the majority vote had been Remain that what have been the end of any racially motivated crimes and we would all be living in some multicultural utopia.And yes I did vote Leave and no immigration was not the main and only reason for that,but from your many posts I've read you take the moral higher ground and presume to know better than any Leave voter themselves why they voted out.
Is it too simple to say -well obviously it is because I'm a thick Leaver- that if the majority vote had been Remain we would still have seen hate crimes perpetrated by the very nasty ,and very small minority of the far right BNP who I persorally abhor and have no connection with their truly racist agenda.

from your may posts you presume to know exactly what my motivation for that was and take the moral higher ground.

Oh well said Anya and tbags.

It is exactly these little 'poisonous injections' into the political threads that do spoil them. Usually these are in reply posts to someone who's views are different from another's or sometimes, because an arguement is put forward that is complex and the complexities have been misunderstood.

Many a time a post would be just as effective without these comments, and indeed have more gravitas.

I've slept on what I said on this thread yesterday and I don't regret any of it.

The reason I used the expression "inject poisonous implications" is because, as I tried to explain late last night, I regard the use of the term 'justify' (as in Don't care how you try and justify it, it's wrong ) in talk about racism as unjust and as assuming something bad in me because it seems to suggest that I was saying it wasn't wrong. Of course racism and everything associated with it (in this case the racist happenings after the referendum, the "it" in the bolded sentence above) is wrong. No-one, and particularly not me, has said otherwise.

And therefore I regard the implication in that sentence that I had said or implied otherwise as a poisonous injection. So I said so.

I'd be very happy if you ignored all my posts, dj. I do ignore most of yours.

I think what may have happened to cause what I see as misinterpretation of my post at 20:33:04 is that what I would call a rationalisation, an attempt to understand the whys and wherefores of a phenomenon, others call justification. Justification is a loaded word and that's why I objected to it. I don't see rationalisation (trying to understand in as neutral terms as possible) as the same thing as justification at all.

jura, I do not do deliberate misconstructions and disingenuous denials. I argue as devil's advocate sometimes and I take the piss about things sometimes but I hope I always make it clear when I'm doing that. I am honest and I resent your suggesting otherwise.

"Inject poisonous implications" is not quite the same as propensity to misunderstand, bags. It's criticising me personally. If I misunderstood it, perhaps you could explain better, for someone as simple as me.
Or perhaps I would be better off just ignoring your posts, as I seem to misunderstand them so often. Perhaps you could afford me the same courtesy.

Oh come on TBags- dj and myself too are quite used to your regular personal attacks and misconstruations and disingenuous denials when you start stirring.

I'm criticising your propensity to misunderstand my posts, dj. I suppose I should be used to it by now.

I did not say justify racism. I said justify it, meaning your clain that Brexit was not responsible for racism.
Obviously you are now going to claim you did not mean that.
Why do you feel the need to criticise me personally all the time?

I wonder whether the area you live in influences whether you hear racist comments. The fact that some posters haven't heard racism doesn't mean it isn't alive and well in the UK. I agree that this is a largely tolerant country

Exactly so, iam. I think racism is alive and well in most countries. I said earlier I hadn't heard racist comments but since I said that I've remembered that I have. In Thailand. Against Tamil immigrants there.

I also heard complaints about racist behaviour in Oxford, form a Ugandan Asian friend. She had not experienced it in Oxford but in her home town of Worcester. I did not hear any racism or xenophobia in Oxford though many of my friends were foreigners.