Brexit 3

I agree baden - although he did sort of warn about this sort of thing when he was on Question Time panel - but he no way threatened.

Ford have announced halving the number of engines to made in Bridgend plant.

it seems that some posters, not being able to say gloomy things about the economy are latching on to any racist attack [of which there are always loads anyway] to blame on us leaving the EU.Give it up!

A police inspector on local TV yesterday said that whilst there was a spike in hate crimes just after the referendum that has now declined nationally. The stock market is doing well, unemployment is down, manufacturing is up. Whilst other countries may prefer to have trading agreements with the EU (larger market) I can't see them turning down trade with UK (particularly in Australia where there is a lot of unemployment).

At least there is one European leader who understands: Victor Oban ( Hungary)
He said. People don't change, religious and national identity still have there place. There's no European identity that could replace them. They ( the eu) propose a new identity- the European identity- but the britains said no they want to be british

Ford at Bridgend are always cutting jobs, that's nothing new.

Good posts Lozzamas echoes my thought also. We can only go on what information we have at hand and so far the experts have had to admit , shall I kindly say, been over cautious. It can all turn on a sixpence however and that is accepted.

Tegan might I respectfully say there has indeed been accusations of a deeply troubling choice of rhetoric from some who cannot accept anybody voted for Brexit were not xenophobic/racist/educationally stunted/ignorant people. It would be so easy to produce many posts to prove that point.

The word ' Brexiter' has become an opportunity for some to pour scorn and make abusive comments about individuals or as a group. The word 'Remainer' has as far as I can see not caused such vitriol. There is a world of difference to accusing others of being racists/uneducated as opposed to being told to 'get over it'.

I think people should refresh their memories and read back on the awful threads and posts since June 24th , it was not a good time for GN.

"But the referendum did unleash a wave of racism didn't it?"

The people perpetrating acts of racism didn't need an excuse. They were racist before any talk of leaving the EU, and they remained racist after the referendum. Their vile acts were held up as an example of Brexit mentality, which was totally unfair.

Liberals usually wring their hands when sweeping generalisations are made, or when all people are tarred with the same brush, but post Brexit many Remainers delighted in sneering and labelling those who wanted out of the EU as racist, xenophobic, thick, blinkered, Little Englanders and old. That was noticeable too, sadly.

All the 'isms' which the left usually (and rightly) deplore were levelled at those who voted to leave the EU.

That elitist sneering and superiority stance, which still goes on if you read the Guardian, as I do, leaves a very bad taste in the mouth. (Has anyone else noticed that decent debate in Guardian columns has been hijacked by semi-literate name-callers, usually of the youthful variety who are also resorting to swearing and the nastiest of vulgar retorts? This has been unleashed too, post Brexit, and it doesn't reflect well on Remainers.)

The extremes of the left and right have been downright nasty. Left wingers and right wingers rightly disassociate themselves from the violent, Vicious, narrow-minded element on both sides of the fence.

My feeling is that the apocalypse predicted by those who wanted us to stay in the EU hasn't happened. Project Fear failed, and we've yet to see where Brexit will take us. It's interesting that the reports of finanacial and economic doom have all been written using the word "may". EG: The Japanese MAY decide to relocate to an EU country later on, sometime...perhaps". BBC news is shamefully biased too, by dint of omission. Balanced reporting from the BBC is a thing of the past.

So, many things have come to light post Brexit,and many reflect badly on extreme individuals. I'd imagine most GNs distance themselves from acts of racial hatred, no matter what their EU stance.

However, the world keeps turning and the pit of despair we are supposed to be peering into, hasn't appeared. Like Lozzamus, I go forward with hope and the resolve to make the best of the future, out of the EU. The doom-mongers will of course now say "What future?"

Isn't the Brexit quarreling becoming predictable - on both sides? The constant niggling doesn't take us anywhere. I feel we have to let it go and see what happens. Acceptance is part of the healing process.

I'd just like to remind these happy Brexiters that

1) The economy is being propped up at the moment with £60 billion of 'quantitive easing'; which would not have been needed had the vote gone the other way, and which is a trick that the Bank of england can't keep on pulling out of the bag.

2) Interest rates are approaching negative quantities; very bad news for people, such as pensioners, whose income depends on invested money

3) The pound is still extremely low against the dollar and the euro

So it's not really looking very economically rosy.

Also, we haven't left the EU yet; we're still trading in the same old way with the same conditions attached. I suspect that business's may well be trying to extract every bit of value before the crunch comes. Also, that consumers may be stocking up for much the same reason (and because it's not worth saving with interest rates so low. Which is precisely why they are so low, to encourage a consumer boom...)

It will be interesting to see what arrangement we eventually come up with as everyone involved seems to have a different aim in mind.

Oh,we will all have lost interest by then Deedaa

Oh, I don't think everyone will have done, roses!

'Between May and June this year there was a 10-point surge in people saying that immigration is the biggest issue facing the country, according to the Ipsos MORI’s Issues Index.

In the final two weeks before the Referendum, the New Statesman’s Political Monitor showed that immigration ranked as the biggest issue affecting how people would vote in the Referendum.

In fact, total control of immigration appeared to matter more to voters than the EU Single Market, according to various surveys and polls that analysed the Brexit decision.

Today, Channel Four broadcast a news clip called, ‘What does the future hold for EU NHS staff?'

The 90-second segment is heart breaking to watch, because it shows how hard-working NHS staff from other EU countries feel so hurt and unwanted following the Referendum result'
..some of the things that I've obviously been just imagining .

nobody is throwing out NHS staff who come from EU countries, they are here, in jobs, and will no doubt stay as long as they want to or have jobs.
we have to have what's best for this country in the long run, we can't be worrying about any hurt feelings from some staff.

we have had high immigration in the NHS for donkeys years and that will continue, as there are not enough UK doctors and nurses, what may change over the years however is the countries they come from.
Having had recent experience of EU staff in hospital, I can tell you that there are a lot of cock-ups, some of which could be highly dangerous, because the nurses did not understand English properly and so got things wrong for my poor DH, just lucky that I and other visitors were there.

Nobody is throwing them out..yet..because we are still in the EU

and will no doubt stay as long as they want to or have jobs.

You may not doubt this but T.May won't guarantee it (presumably with a view to using them as a bargaining counter?) so this could mean a long period of stressful uncertainty for them. I wouldn't be at all surprised if many of them try to get out for more stable emplyment prospects in other countries. Thus leaving the NHS short of vital staff.

we can't be worrying about any hurt feelings from some staff.

What a horrible thing to say.

I agree that there can be a lack of understanding with EU staff but surely the answer is to give them specific English lessons - they will have been taught ' normal English ' and there is, to a great extent, an extra vocabulary when dealing with health issues. Reading some posts from EU citizens working in the NHS many feel not wanted so are thinking of using their right to leave the country and return to their homeland.

I'm pretty sure that those Leave voters who had concerns about immigration didn't have NHS staff in mind.

Obviously Theresa May is not moving fast enough for lots of Brexiters. They've even set themselves up as a new group, lead by Gisela Stuart and Michael Gove. Didn't take them long to get back in.

www.changebritain.org/brexit-means-brexit/

They've also dropped their pledge to spend the money saved on the NHS.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/10/brexit-camp-abandons-350-million-pound-nhs-pledge

That is probably true Ana but that is not how these people see it. I read posts today from a nurse and Consultant - both said how people told them - we do not mean you- but they feel unsafe and unwanted. The UK is being perceived as a racist country at the moment - you cannot blame people for thinking this when so many people when asked about reasons for wanting to leave the EU said immigrants! These interviews were shown on European TV at the time.

'Finally on energy, the poorest households spend three times more of their income on household energy bills than the richest households spend. As long as we are in the EU, we are not allowed to cut VAT on domestic fuel. When we Vote Leave, we will be able to scrap this unfair and damaging tax' quote from Gisela Stuart on gransnet. Hurrah; now she's going to get things moving my utilities bill is going to come down. Can't wait. Good old Gisela.

She said it on Gransnet? It must be true!
When we vote leave, as well. It should have happened already.
However, I am sure I read yesterday that energy prices are going up.
Who to believe.

Poles in Harlow have had a meeting and want to leave the town after the murder of a Polish IT manager and attacks on other Poles, because they don't feel safe. The alleged murderers were all teenagers. Witnesses have said the attacks were unprovoked after the men were heard to speak Polish.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-hate-crime-racism-polish-man-killed-harlow-mp-eu-referendum-result-immigration-arkadiusz-a7218711.html

I expect these kids were already racist/xenophobic, but who knows what legitimacy BREXIT gave to their prejudice?

Poles in Harlow have had a meeting and want to leave the town after the murder of a Polish IT manager and attacks on other Poles, because they don't feel safe. The alleged murderers were all teenagers. Witnesses have said the attacks were unprovoked after the men were heard to speak Polish.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-hate-crime-racism-polish-man-killed-harlow-mp-eu-referendum-result-immigration-arkadiusz-a7218711.html

I expect these kids were already racist/xenophobic, but who knows what legitimacy BREXIT gave to their prejudice?

@rosesarered

I hope EU staff working in the NHS care more about your feelings than you do about theirs. The very best GP I have ever had came from Rumania and my son was delivered by an excellent German doctor, so it just shows that anecdote doesn't count for much.

Ooops! Don't know why my post appeared twice.