Let's not forget Brexit

Have you taken to talking for people you haven't consulted petra? Who made you that person.

If all sides were guilty surely you would want it all to be uncovered not let them all cover up for one another. I do wonder at peoples idea of the law these days.

Whitewave

Which countries have said they 'are not willing to risk their existing trade deals with the EU.' ?

I have not seen or heard this so interested.

"Ministers are to be forced to publish secret papers on the impact of Brexit on the UK economy after a landmark Commons defeat for the Government.

Labour hailed a major “victory for Parliament and democracy” as MPs passed an Opposition Day motion demanding that the confidential documents be handed over to a select committee.

Commons Speaker John Bercow ruled that the vote was binding on ministers and insisted that they had to respond as soon as possible.

He said that ministers could find themselves in contempt of Parliament if they refused the expressed will of the Commons.

After hours of passionate debate, Brexit minister Steve Baker decided against putting the motion to a vote amid fears that Tory rebels were set to side with Labour to demand publication."

Arron Banks is second to this - or maybe even third after Fox.

This is what Anna Soubry said:
“The implication is quite clear: there’s something in them that’s not to be disclosed because it might actually prick this golden bubble, this balloon of the promised land of Brexit.”

Good.

Is anyone watching the euro. It's dropping against the pound.

We don't need to, petra. I'm sure you'll let us all know what's happening.

if she manages to get a word in that is

Petra doesn't have any problems with that.

'Is anyone watching the euro. It's dropping against the pound.'...maybe that's because people are beginning to suspect that brexit might not actually happen.#justsaying

The pound is rising on expectations that the BOE is going to raise interest rates tomorrow. It's expected to raise interest rates to curb inflation, which has risen to 3%. We have inflation as a result of the pound falling in June 2016, after the Brexit vote, so imports are more expensive.

I suspect that this is nothing to celebrate.

Tegan2 - yes this is exactly how it is reported in the EU.

From SkyNews:

The Government has lost an opposition vote calling on it to publish impact assessments of Brexit on more than 50 key industries.

There was no official division as only Labour MPs backed it and no Conservative MPs objected.

Speaker John Bercow said he "expects" the Government to respect the decision - despite confusion over whether the result is binding.

Opposition Day debate motions are traditionally non-binding, but Labour had tabled a special "Humble Address" motion.

It is a centuries-old and infrequently used procedure that asks the Queen directly to request documents from the Government.

Mr Bercow had only advised: "Motions of this kind have in the past been seen as effective or binding."

He warned ministers could be in "contempt" of Parliament if they ignore the call.

And yet, not a single word or report about this on the BBC News at 10- who requested their silence. Smacks of Dictatorship- seriously worrying.

I can't really believe that the government is being held to account at last. That is such good news Jen and definitely top of the list.

Yes, GracesGran. The good thing is that they did not debate that they had considered the motion, like they have done with so many recently.

I have just been listening to a paper review and they are talking about them being a redacted copies. Just how redacted I wonder?

Redacted enough to be meaningless says my twitter echo chamber

Which, of course, would then be just as suspicious as their initial refusal to publish...

"And, isn't it important that those of us who do not favour leaving the EU are doing our best to hold the government accountable for the way they are dealing with brexit, instead of just letting them get away with whatever they like."

But you're not though, are you Tegan? The Government ministers and negotiators packing their cases for Brussels don't think..."Hang on. I must check the Gransnet Remainers Group thread before I go and make notes about the course I must follow."

I am being facetious of course but if you stood back and viewed your reaction (the group reaction) you'd surely see that not one of you is philosophical or prepared to go with the flow. You are all still angry but until it happens you really don't know what you have, if anything, to be angry about. [grin} So many assumptions are being made and you just cannot accept that the vote did not go your way.

Isn't that an awful waste of angst?

Why do I feel that in a few years down the line, once we have left the EU and the Brexit dust has settled, you'll still be picking holes in life and the way it is lived? Isn't life just too flippin' short to be SO concerned that it's not unfolding how you want it to? Fair enough, moan about it but some battles you just cannot win. We can rue so many political decisions, we can be glad that our government gets it right occasionally too, but that's politics and we are stuck with the system we have and have very little hold, if any, over our elected representatives.

This thread is for the benefit of a frustrated group of posters, so they can reassure each other that everything is going to be absolutely disastrous.

They lost the vote so the outcome has to be bad. It just HAS to be.

You just can't see the way every Brexit discussion goes. It has been said in many circles that it's almost as if Remainers WANT the outcome to be bad so they can say "Told you so!".

The process is going to take a while, as we all know, but you pounce on every scrap of pro EU biased reporting to soothe yourselves, and try to convince each other that Leavers are very bad people and so are the people doing the work which will extricate us from the Brussels' stranglehold. They are useless even though you do not know what is going on behind closed doors.

I could liken Remainers here to vultures sitting in trees, waiting for a carcass. You need a carcass to pick over and you haven't got one. You are determined you will have one though.

My tuppence worth, my overview, hasn't added anything much to the Brexit discussion, but that's because I see little point in arguing the toss about imagined scenarios.

I suspect most Leave voters feel the same way. I doubt if there'll be much two-sided discussion until there is something tangible to discuss. In the meantime Remainers, keep fanning the flames of despair.

".......vote calling on it to publish impact assessments of Brexit on more than 50 key industries."

Assessments.....assessments. Unbelievable! So who is going to do that work then? How long will it take to assess these industries from all angles...make an assessment (which could be totally incorrect) and get the findings (of an assessment) published. Which 50 industries will be assessed?

What will these findings do exactly? What if these 'assessments' of FUTURE performance are completely inaccurate?

Anyone else like me work in a situation where I had to tick boxes daily as a matter of course only to find they served no purpose other than for someone further up the line to say "Yes, the box has been ticked."?

Anyone else have to do risk assessment almost daily for every conceivable movement in the workplace, only to find that by spending ages of valuable time assessing a situation it invariably came to naught, and that the risk of the improbable scenario we'd spent ages racking our brains to think about, looking at it from all angles and in every conceivable light, was a complete and utter waste of time. Valuable working hours spent time and time again again on these stupid and meaningless 'what if?' assessments only for them to be filed away and eventually shredded.

Another massive crystal-ball gazing exercise and a complete and utter waste of what will be millions of pounds worth of taxpayers money.

But anything to stall the Brexit process, eh?

Sorry, Day6. Your posts, though undeniably eloquent, display such ignorance of what is happening in respect of Brexit that they bring into question the soundness your judgement when you made your original decision to vote Leave and make it impossible to have any respect for your current opinion of Remainers.

'My tuppence worth, my overview, hasn't added anything much to the Brexit discussion, but that's because I see little point in arguing the toss about imagined scenarios'

Wow, Day6.
I don't understand why you write so much if that's what you think.
Why are you wasting your time on this thread?

Day6
Two brilliant posts. The reference to the vultures in the trees was spot on, ive often thought of the remainders in that way. The minute a leaver posts something, they swoop down.

As we know the impact assessments were done some time ago and it is thanks to the work of Keir Starmer and parliament that the government will now be forced to release them.
Apparently the one on galleries, museums and libraries might still be witheld. Did it suggest that Brexit should be shelved? ?

Have you actually read the posts you're applauding, petra? I'd've thought that any Leaver with a claim to a brain would be cringing with embarrassment at the second one.

All information from the government has to be put in the House of Commons library. That's probably the only one they are concerned about, Mamie.
Sometimes politicians are only allowed to read things in secrecy in there.

How can our angst about Brexit be wasted?

Day6 implies that we only go on Gransnet. We do lots of other things to stop Brexit, and we do actually correspond with our MPs and support them in their jobs, not just leave them to think they are alone in this.
After yesterday, it looks like we are getting somewhere, too, so our angst hasn't been wasted, unlike your diatribes.

display such ignorance of what is happening in respect of Brexit that they bring into question the soundness your judgement when you made your original decision to vote Leave and make it impossible to have any respect for your current opinion of Remainers.

Sighs

Patronising yet again, MaizieD. "Unsound judgement". How inexcusably judgemental of you, but it does highlight what I and other Leave voters have been saying.

My judgement remains extremely sound. I probably did as much reading and research as you did and I thought long and hard regarding the salient issues and voted accordingly.

I didn't expect my views of Remainers to win me friends. I have some concerns about the intense agitation I see on threads like this. As an onlooker I have wondered if workers from political groups have been planted on forums such as these, as not a stone is left unturned or a pro-EU article left unread.

I am sure each and every one of you did your EU homework too before voting and you are reasonable, decent people but the News and Politics forum IS dominated by people who seem to have the time on their hands to read and digest every scrap of biased, pro-EU news, fake or otherwise and make pronouncements of impending doom based on predictions and prophecies.

Dare I say it, some concerns are bordering on obsessions that absolutely no good at all will come of our leaving the EU. It has to be said there is unveiled animosity towards those who voted to leave the EU. You are angry that others had the temerity to vote and thwart you. It all seems so pointless.

Of course there are issues of concern to us all but we knew whichever way the vote went we would have to trust the government of the day to wade through the treacle binding us to the EU. It was never going to be easy. It's also uncharted territory. We are the exit pioneers. Other countries may follow (I feel sure they will in time) and by then one has to hope the process will be a tad less complicated and involved.

In the meantime I feel life is far too short to be dissecting and poring over every scrap of Brexit 'news'. That's all.

Oh - and you can choose to call me 'ignorant' if that's your style but I think that says more about you than it does me. Never underestimate your opponent.