Male staff in women's refuges?

When I was posting about the threat of situations like this arising with SI, some posters accused me ( and people who agreed with me) of being ‘hysterical’ and exaggerating the whole issue - well this is only the beginning of the loss of safe spaces for women and our hard fought for rights - ironic in the week we celebrated the beginnings of women’s suffrage isn’t it?

I wonder if womens refuges should be totally staffed by women in the first place. It is obviously not representative of the real world. Also men can be calm, gentle, and loving too. Just thinking 'aloud' !

Oh come on mum you are joking? I do not think it’s a joking matter - you do know what utter hell women in refuges have been through at the hands ( literally ) of men before they end up in there? Domestic violence is widespread in our society and a woman’s refuge is and should continue to be a refuge from men.

No I am not joking. I do realise what women have been through. But men mustn't be demonised because of a few very violent ones. It is important for these damaged women to build up trusting relationships with other males

I experienced DV and eventually left although I did not use a refuge I had amazing outreach support from women's aid staff and victim support as I had my ex husband charged with assault and gave evidence against him in court. I do have trusting relationships with long term male friends who supported me at the time but I think if I was actually in a refuge I don't think I would like to be relating to male staff at a time when I remember being very scared and vulnerable. I think it would depend on how the men identifying as women came across and I say this as someone who is very sympathetic to transgender people having worked with them in my job as a therapist.

It does leave its mark on you emotionally there is no way I would ever have another relationship

Refuges are temporary - the first step on the road to recovery. In the middle of the night when you arrive bruised and battered in fear of your life, perhaps with traumatised children clinging to you is NOT the time to start building up a trusting relationship with a man! FFS. And if you believe that there only a ‘very few’ violent men then you don’t know enough about domestic violent statistics.

I think refuges should be exempt from employing men, whether they identify as women or not. Its a safe area for people who are traumatised.

I think carefully chosen and vetted male staff, of whatever sexual orientation, should be hired and used for their skills in these circumstances.

I take exactly momb’s point. Good men could go a long way to helping abused women. They could show them that not all men are abusers, monsters but indeed many are kind and caring, and perhaps even help the women to spot the difference between the two.

Exactly MissA and we can add to that a variety of currently women only safe spaces. I’m a white woman, I’ve lived and experienced my whole life as a whie woman - I don’I think for one single minute I would have any right to work with , for example, Muslim survivors of domestic abuse or rape. In fact, thinking I should be able to would surely demonstrate how unsuited I was to do that work - and that’s how I would feel about any transwoman wanting to work in a woman’s refuge

I agree with Maryeliza there is no place for men (or wannabe women) within a women’s REFUGE !

Our WI work closely with a women’s refuge and some of the horrendous stories are heartbreaking. Many of the women (and indeed children) would never feel safe around a male worker , even if he was wearing a frock.

I bet many of the abusers started off as “kind and caring” though.

Well I think I’ll listen to Twice on this point. Do you actually know the state women are in when they arrive at a refuge?

The time for building up relationships with men will be after the initial crisis period is over.. or maybe never again. That has to be the women's choice, not something that's pushed onto them before they feel ready.

My last post was to OM. Two good posts gb. When I think about the battles (metaphoric) that women fought in the 60s to get women refuges established and DV recognised ( at a time when men could rape their wives legally) I could cry at some people’s attitudes on here.

And I’d add ‘check your privelege’

Just what an abused woman needs , a man in a frock to help her trust men .

I am fed up with all this ,

Thank you Maryeliza have any of you who have commented been in the situation of being scared for your life? The aftermath was a very bad time in my life and it took months for me to rebuild. In that time I had no confidence, had panic attacks, and was afraid to go out alone. I could not have had contact with a man at that point whom I hadn't known for a long time I only saw my SIL and was in contact by email with a trusted long term male friend. It was hard to talk to women about what happened a man would have been impossible. Women's refuges are one of the few places that are exempt under one gender only law don't change that.

I know a female who transitioned to a male. This person worked through an agency, supporting a young teen girl who has severe disabilities, and has only women support staff.
Since this was quite a few years ago, there was quite a lot of confusion about what should be done when this person began to identify as a male.
There was talk of discrimination: nobody was quite sure what should happen.
Long story short, as a male, who has now completed the process, this person is unable to work with a young teen girl, as the job is exempt from the discrimination act, due to the very personal care involved.
I would add that it has helped this person enormously to be accepted as the man he now is, because he recognised that male support, in this instance is inappropriate.

I agree with the majority. Many women seeking out refuge will not feel safe around any man, let alone one in a position of power. And there will be young children whose only experience of men is of those who hurt and terrify. The needs of the victims should be paramount here.

MissA, your post of 09.27.46 could be taken to mean that males transitioning to females should be completely accepted as such, including in the situation of women's refuges.

I agree with your previous posts, that women who look for safety in refuges are often very distressed and vulnerable and that is not the time for anyone to try to insist on them developing trusting relationships with men.

I hope that Women's Aid is consulting users of its services about this, not just looking at the "rights" of a small minority of men.

(And trans people are a much smaller minority of men than those men who are abusive to women.)

I’ve been pondering the Women’s Aid position. Any women only services are being targeted by very vociferous and well connected radical trans activists. I hope that what WA is doing is to consult so that they can demonstrate the strength of feeling against the idea - in other words steal their thunder.

During my 18+ years as a WA worker we had a couple of instances of men trying to infiltrate the group as volunteers, only to discover that they were paedophiles, trying to gain access to vulnerable young boys. Also once, in the days before 'women only' legislation we interviewed a very weird man, with a huge unexplained gap in his CV, for a refuge workers job. Trying to be PC we tied ourselves in knots about this man before one of the interviewers asked if we would give the job to this person if 'he' were a woman - the answer was a resounding NO and that was that.

We also had problems with a predatory lesbian unpaid worker, who made inappropriate advances to Refuge residents (she was asked to leave the group) but were quite comfortable with a relationship which developed between a Refuge Worker and a woman in the refuge as they kept it under wraps until the woman was rehoused. That couple are still happily together some 40 years on.

Part of the ethos and work of WA is to help women who have been abused to become self confident individuals, able to stand on their own two feet such that any future relationship they choose will be entered into on an equal basis rather than because they 'need' to have a man in their life. To this end we tried to demonstrate that women were perfectly able to tackle any task, without needing to call on male expertise or strength. Not always possible as the Council leased the Refuges to WA and would send random, local male plumbers, electricians etc. to do repairs or maintenance thus compromising the 'secret location' of the refuge.

These issues are very difficult for WA as a leading campaigning Women's Rights organisation. I trust that even if trans or SI women are granted the right to apply for WA jobs or as volunteers, the rigorous selection procedure will weed out anyone with dubious motives.

Yes, I do know Maryeliza.