Misreading the country?

I will not vote, doubt the suffragettes expected me to sell my soul.

I think the only way to 'read the country' as far as Brexit is concerned is to ask it, by way of another referendum. A GE would be no good because it just muddies the waters as there are many other policy aspects to be considered when choosing who to vote for. Brexit is really a non-party issue and, fearful though I would be about a replay of the lies, corruption and illegality of the last ref, I think it's the only way to really find out what 'the country' feels about credible (which rules out 'no deal' insanity) options.

Once we've got a 'decision' on brexit we could then have a GE to decide how best the country can be healed.

If I were to read the country on the views of the people I will meet today I would find 90% in favour of revoking A50 and trying to mitigate the harm we've done to ourselves at home and abroad. Which would really tells me absolutely nothing useful as they don't comprise a representative sample of the population. That is why properly run opinion polls are much more useful.

I think I will spoil my ballot paper which then sends the message that yes I could be bothered to vote but will write on it ‘none of the above’.

You're all saying pretty much what I've been hearing all over.
I'll vote but God knows who for -or even what for except an end to this uncertainty. Those politician!! Shakes fist angrily!

I will repeat what I posted on another thread last night -

"Where's Guy Fawkes when you need him"!!!

or what else would they have been doing/discussing if it hadn't been for Brexit ?

They could have been running the bloody country.

We really should have had compulsory education in how government works from the 1950s onward. Then perhaps 90% of the adult population wouldn't be so convinced that MPs do nothing but sit on their backsides all day working out how to screw maximum expenses claims out of 'public money'.

Last night on local TV, my MP said he would back TM's deal. Then, when we've left the EU, we could sort out the Northern Irish border, using the backstop which gives MP's time for negotiations. It's only meant as a temporary measure.
He sounded very frustrated that the rest of the Conservative party were not 100% behind the Prime Minister, and he talked a lot of sense.
I'll vote for him in the next GE, not because of his Brexit views, but his transport policies, and other matters for this area.
I never post on political threads, but on this one I felt I should.
I feel really sorry for the Prime Minister. What an utter mess, and a complete shambles in Westminster.

GG

Why should anyone feel sorry for Theresa May? She isn't stupid. She must have realised some time ago that she wasn't going to get much more from the EU and that NI was an insolvable problem BUT she carried on pretending. Buzzing backwards and forwards like some self important bluebottle. She knew the brexiteers in her party were never going to support her deal. She evidently never speaks to the Attorney general. She should do the decent thing and resign. The mess and the shambles have been fuelled by her inability to admit she couldn't do what she said she would.
There are only two real options now a general election and a people's vote on any deal.
Those who are commenting about the suffragettes should note that the movement was never only about winning the vote. The women also believed in Equal Pay for Equal work and wanted the poor, especially women and children to be properly cared for. And only one party stands for that now. Food banks woud have been considered unthinkable by those women, who campaigned for local authorities to supply breakfasts for poor children and shamed them into doing so by setting up their own.

What happened to Labours promise , if no general election then a people’s vote

Try to get things right Annie Labour's proposed deal will go to Parliament next week- little hope of it passing- then they will ask for a vote of no-confidence and a GE. If that doesn't go through (and most likely it won't) then they say a People's vote is the only way to go. I know it isn't easy to understand but a bit of honesty and effort helps.
The Labour Party isn't the government. Only the government can call a GE.

Who'd want to lead the country right now ?? Who, out of the rogues gallery of politicians would anyone vote for ??

I'll only vote for the person who brings our state pension to equal that of other developed countries because at present, we have the lowest ! It's a disgrace and an insult.

trisher what else could she do? It's a democracy. The majority, for whatever reason, voted for Brexit. We may not like it but it's frustrating for us that those politicians on all sides are trying to kick it into the long grass. We'll all be relying on food banks soon enough.

trisher has there not been a vote of no confidence?

When the generals were ruling in Greece voting was compulsory even though there were no choices! One of the locals told my OH that they would draw a Mickey Mouse on the voting slip. Even that was risky as the slips were numbered and could be traced.

Seems many Labour Party members feel let down , Corbyn didn’t mention a people’s vote yesterday

If politicians cannot agree on what is best for this country, how on earth can we the general public be expected to? One minute we're labelled as uneducated, without a brain cell between us, homophobic, etc etc, the next we could be seriously asked how best to get this country out of this appalling mess. Well, if YOU don't know, then whatever makes you think that Joe Soap public does?!!! Passing the buck?!!!! then any catastrophe could be placed firmly at the publics door and, of course, nothing to do with politicians!!!
A general election? Well, our MP is a brexiteer who voted for Mrs Mays deal,so he would get my vote. Dominic Grieve would not!

There was vote of no confidence some time ago Annie which was defeated because the DUP support the Conservatives 325 against, 306 for. As I said the Labour Party can't call a GE. Another vote of NC will probably go the same way. But having failed to deliver what she promised she would, the honourable thing would be for TM to resign and for the government to announce a GE.
I don't think there is another instance where a party have clung so desperately to power

Then why not a call for a people’s vote not another no confidence, the DUP will not go with Corbyn who wants a United Ireland

I wish people would desist from referring to the majority of people voting for Brexit: the majority of people who voted voted for Brexit. Nearly 13 million people who were eligible didn't vote at all, and obviously no-one knows which way they would have voted if they had done so. The percentage of people who voted to leave, out of all people eligible to vote, is only 37%.

Jabberwock exactly!
Saying ‘give this to the people to decide on’ merely means that they, the politicians can’t or won’t do it.Marvellous eh?

Taking no deal off the table in Parliament doesn’t mean much, except to announce that the majority In HOC don’t like it...the default legal position is that we do leave without a deal ( if there isn’t one.)
Even if the EU say we can have an extension, what for? To continue the in-fighting?

Because the purpose of HM's Opposition is to OPPOSE and try to defeat the government. Because Brexit is just one of the almighty messes this government has landed this country in. Because people with disabilities are dying when their benefits are axed. Because the prison service is an absolute mess. Because more people are using foodbanks. Because more people are on zero hours contracts. Because knife crime is increasing and there are not enough police or support services dealing with it. How many reasons do you need?
Because unless you have real alternatives on the ballot paper a People's Vote will not solve anything.

I think a 2nd ref should precede a GE because I agree about maizies comment about the muddied waters of a GE.
This morning I finally heard 2 politicians who made sense. (As a non-Tory) I think Ken Clarke and Michael Heseltine are right.
Clarke said what I want to hear - that this such a momentous decision that it has to be given as much time as is needed to reach a conclusion that safeguards the younger generations.
Yes, I 'm fed up of the chaos but am not ready to stomp off in a puerile tantrum and jeopardise the future of my DGC. These more experienced and, dare I say, respected politicians are for remaining.
In a general election, raising my pension would be far from first thing on my agenda!

What can we agree? Almost everyone agrees it is a shambles. Most people "just want it over with". However many think that leaving would mean it would all be over and we'd hear no more about it. Some even think that "no deal" means we'd be out, save money and control immigration, but otherwise everything would carry on as usual.

It must be explained to everyone that if we were to leave, on 29 March or at any other time, far from brexit being over, it would only jusg be beginning and the appalling waste of time and money would go on and on and on for the rest of our lives.

Jane10, with respect and I do mean that

'It's a democracy. The majority, for whatever reason, voted for Brexit. '

A 'democracy' is such a vague term- and can mean 100s of different things around the world. I was raised and now live again in a 'Direct Democracy' after living all my adult time in a 'Parliamentary Democracy with FPP system and an unelected Chamber' - a massive and vast difference.

I agree 200% with Maizie- the decision has to go back to the people as the only way out of this impasse, and we cannot let the EDL and BF, Tony Robinson, and even Farage- from threatening us into 'submission'.

You know as well as I do, that the minority was very small- and that in Scotland it was a good majority against. And that would perhaps be fair enough.

But we now know the possible consequences and we now know that the promises made are undelivrable - that we cannot cherry pick and have cake and eat it- that the Irish border has NO solution that would not threaten peace. We know that their promises that jobs would not be lost, is turning into a nightmare for industry and agriculture. Etc, etc.

And we also now have proof that massive and blatant lies were told, for the darkest of reasons, that clear fraud took place, foreign interference, illegal and hidden targetting of specific groups, dodgy money- all for the darkest of reasons- to make a few very rich people massively richer- and because both Trump and Putin want a weak Europe for their own designs. We now know that Trump and others will only give us deals if we agree to abide by their poor and dangerous standards- to break our competition- and want to put their grubby hands on the NHS.

If that is 'Democracy' then ?!?!?