Appalling news about Brexit

I personally know two people who have lied about who was driving when caught on a speed camera. I do not condone it, but it’s hardly the crime of the century and the woman has paid her dues and been publicly humiliated and vilified.

I admire your confidence Lemongrove. I am a remainer and would like a second referendum, but I think the Withdrawal Agreement will probably get through next week as the only option left.

I hope you are right lemongrove but some hard-right Leavers are not happy with the 'soft' deal option and will not be appeased. I believe, and hope, their numbers are small.
We'll see.

Back to the OP and civil unrest, let us hope no violence and certainly no loss of life. Please.

Some sort of acknowledgement from Leavers that the referendum was 'won' with fraud, cheating and illegality would be very welcome.

If this is 'democracy' then I don't care much for their version of it.

As to 'we are leaving', it's completely up in the air at the moment.

GG13 '? I propose we have a third one after a year so then it would be “best of three”'

not that old chestnut again- if the vote is legit- it will go through. There will be no 3rd vote- well at least not for some years. And you know that, perfectly well.

If it goes through and we leave with No Deal- then my prediction is that there will be a massive economic drain, services drain- and more importantly, a huge brain drain. People will accept the vote - and move with their feet, heart and soul.

Another excuse to vent their pent-up angst-----it doesn't take much these days. Look at someone the wrong way and there's a bashing in store.
I've never come across such a society of unruly and angry people in this country and I've been to many where the receptions have been a pleasure, which is why I have nothing against European countries or their involvements with this country.
Our behaviours when travelling abroad says it all ! Shameful, ill-mannered and totally disrespectful like the " certain " mob of Brexiteers.

@MaizieD
That acknowledgement of cheating etc will never happen, and of course, no charges can be brought because the Referendum was only Advisory, in spite of Cameron's pledge.
If the Referendum is legally Advisory, then Government is not obliged to honour the "will of the people"... but which politician / PM would risk their reputation, or even their life, to speak up and say so. Apart from the fact that we all know, Leavers and Remainers, that TM is following her own agenda, and that Party Interest beats Country Interest, every time.
So we will leave, how - who knows, because TM is not going to compromise her Deal or her Party, and is in hock to the clarion calls from the right-wing media and interests... and, worse, is not prepared to stand up to the bullying, thuggish hooligans who are menacing MPs and threatening violence if they don't get their way - even though they are small in number.
We face a dystopian future, that is for sure. It may not be Armageddon, as some hint at, but it will mean belt-tightening to a degree that we have not seen since the end of the last war. Leavers acknowledge this (well some do) hence the repeated references to our plucky spirit during WW2. However, unlike then, we will not be able to just 'make do and mend' because, unlike then, we are not all pulling in the same direction for the same goal. We are a divided nation, have been for some time, and will continue to be for a couple of generations at least. Much as I can sympathise with some of the feelings of Leave voters, I can never accept that they have made the right decision for the majority of the people in the UK.

Fiona Onasanya still had her tag on she is a convicted criminal. What double standards exists on here making excuses for her how low can Remainers go. If it was Boris or Jacob Rees Mogg voting with a tag on you would all be up in arms.

Who said I was a remainder? If you want to keep on vilifying a woman who is already being punished in law then do carry on. No way wonder people can’t work together if this is the level of debate.

It is a mystery how Boris is not convicted yet for electoral fraud, yet.

@Firecracker123
Probably as low as those Leavers who defend the lying, cheating, and fraud of the Leave campaign. Fiona O will probably ultimately lose her job - rightly so - but the cheats, liars and fraudsters will get away with it.

‘Our behaviours when travelling abroad says it all. Shameful, ill mannered, and totally disrespectful, like the ‘certain’ mob of Brexiteers.’

Well I certainly do not behave shamefully, im not ill mannered, and I’m not totally disrespectful. The word ‘our’ seems to imply this describes the behaviour of all British people when they’re abroad. I’m afraid I beg to disagree, the vast majority of British people behave well, exhibit good manners, and are totally respectful when they are travelling abroad.

im

Sorry, typo.

@maddyone
Must admit I've only seen this boorish type of behaviour in certain holiday destinations in some well-known Spanish resorts... plus some of the East European capitals where 'lads' hold their stag events (shudder).
Considering the number of Brits travelling abroad, I think this cloddish behaviour is of the minority. Unfortunately, their churlishness gets more attention which gives the wrong impression of Brits abroad.

Absolutely vigdis, I realise there are some British people who behave badly, especially in certain places where a lot of cheap alcohol is available to them, but as you say, these people are in the minority. I don’t travel to such places anyway, I try to avoid them. I’m sure many other people do the same.

Fire how do you know what we would say about any other MP with a criminal conviction? Do stop making stuff up.

maryeliza perhaps because that’s how her mind works and she thinks we all carry a vindictiveness gene.

Interesting the points made about Brits abroad. When we lived in Spain we often went to the airport to meet friends coming to stay. Without even knowing the language you would have been able to recognise a British flight. They were generally badly dressed, tattooed, fat and loud. The various european and Spanish flights that came in were completely different.

I am not saying that all Brits are like this. Maybe Spain attracts a certain type of visitor, but I used to feel ashamed watching those flights discharge their contents.

vigdis ' but the cheats, liars and fraudsters will get away with it.'

no excusing Fiona O at all- but the above have caused far far more damage to the country and its people. And many have been guilty of massive fiscal fraud and evasion, and guilty of deliberately lying to the electorate for the Leave campaign- and all because they do not want the new European Laws on Tax Evasion to apply to them (as it now applies to all EU and associated countries, including mine).

and of course, no charges can be brought because the Referendum was only Advisory,

I think that's not quite right, vigdis. Those who broke the Electoral law to such an extent that the Electoral Commission passed the case to the police can most certainly be prosecuted if the CPS says so.

The referendum can't be legally voided because it was 'only' advisory.

If it was Boris or Jacob Rees Mogg voting with a tag on you would all be up in arms.

How could you possibly know that Firecracker? I don't know you and you don't know me so you have absolutely no idea of what my stance would be. The same applies to your zero knowledge of the other Remainers on this forum. I can only assume that you are judging us by your own standards...

It has been pointed out that, despite the tag, Onasanya is sitting in Parliament perfectly legally (if she wasn't 'legal' the tories would have had her out pdq).

Whereas the Vote Leave charlatans corrupted the whole referendum exercise by cheating and lawbreaking. That Leavers find that perfectly OK says a lot about Leavers...And about the death of democracy

I am always sad to see Brits knocking “Brits abroad”, have none of you been to a hotel or resort on American Spring Break, that’s my idea of hell. A ski resort full of Russians and Germans, awful lecherous men of all nationalities in Thailand chasing young girls with their crude language and gestures.

There are millions of British travelers who never cause trouble, many have tattoes, many are overweight and some of the wealthiest people I know really have no interest in clothes!!!!

So stereotype away if it makes you feel better and a superior human being, personally I think it exposes more about the complainant.

As a leave voter I am appalled at the irregularities which have been exposed.

Wouldn’t change my vote, as I looked at the top of the EU and it’s irregularities, and definitely do not want to be a Federal State. Listening to the rhetoric recently and watched “Inside the EU” has only convinced me that leaving the sinking ship aka the EU is the correct thing to do.

As a leave voter I am appalled at the irregularities which have been exposed.

Thank you GG13 Thank you for being empathetic.

You're a nice lady (if a bit misguided...).

MaizieD ???