Safe in whose hands?

Grandad1943. You may know this others may not but our nhs is the result of the Beveridge Report of 1942 initiated by a coalition government of Conservative and Labour. It was written by a Liberal and it was to change the way we looked at social care and general standards of life post war. Labour came to power in 1945 and they took forward the intent of that report. Aneurin Bevan just did the job he was given, the man was no saint. It was going to happen.

That’s why we have the NHS it was never a Labour only project they just constantly claim that.

The NHS is a terrific institution that is run badly by top tier management with a confused overall plan of how it should work.

It needs to be run on a business plan approach not for profit but for the ability to sustain itself. As I understand it, it is run by a lot of people who have no idea of how to run anything. Key is care of the nations unwell to deliver that they need nurses, doctors, pharmacists, cleaners, cooks, secretaries, porters and many more job requirements. It’s a big business and it needs to be run as such. It’s buying power as a whole should be driving the price it pays for all its supplies and services.

If it was in a box I would shake it all up and scrape out the dead weight that fell to the bottom and re organise it toe to top because you have to start with the care required and then how to achieve it.

No doubt many reading this would totally agree some might not, those who feel that The NHS is too ‘special’ to mess with but it needs to be done and it’s the government that needs to fix it we cannot. It is a long term plan that’s needed and it’s going to take someone with some guts but we have good business leaders in this Country so let’s get one of those in charge.

One thing I do know anyone with the skill to do this will not be a Trotskyist. Labour is not made up wholly of them but sadly the leadership is and that’s it’s problem. People who spend their careers sh Tungsten from the back of the room, criticising constantly, never “doing” anything, causing anarchy over achievement, only know how to tear things down not how to build them up and are not capable of fixing anything let alone the NHS.

Oops last paragraph should read...

“People who spend their careers SHOUTING from the back of the room”. Apologies.

* Aneurin Bevan just did the job he was given, the man was no saint. It was going to happen*

What a misinformed post. There was such opposition to this from those who said we ‘couldn’t afford it’ and it would ‘bankrupt the country’

The NHS had the sort of reorganisation that you are suggesting under the coalition government (the thing that David Cameron said would not happen) The health and social care act broke up the NHS to pave the way for privatisation.

A lot of the initial opposition was from doctors who were concerned about their income.

Money was thrown at the NHS in the Blair years and was spent indiscriminately. I walked through one corridor with rooms that were meant for consultations and each one had an admin lady sitting at a desk - filing their nails, reading magazines etc.

The surgery I worked in had a fridge full of staggeringly expensive leukemia treatment for a man who died from a heart attack before treatment started. I was unpopular because I asked what was going to happen to it as it was still wrapped in cellophane and untouched (partly because we needed the space). It was still in the fridge when I left years later.

It took over three months from my applying for a job to getting the job offer. For a very humble position as a dialysis assistant it had to be submitted to three different committees and that was after the same three committees accepted that the positions needed to be filled. It can often take a year to fill vacancies.

I agree that there should be a charge for DNA appointments at surgeries and in hospitals. I attended one clinic and I was the only patient to turn up. Doctors, nurses + admin left kicking their heels in for an afternoon.

I had to send out bills at the local leisure centre to members booking squash or badminton courts who didn’t attend. Most only paid once then remembered to cancel thereafter. It’s not exactly rocket science!

I don't know which political party would most ensure the safety of the NHS. But I did love Nicola Sturgeon's idea of an
NHS Protection Bill, thereby blocking a Trump trade deal that would endanger the health service. Hope she goes through with it, whatever the election result.

Thanks Sussexborn for sharing your experience. I remember a programme made by Gerry Robinson where simple efficiencies were suggested and Pooh-poohed by consultants who had a vested interest in the status quo.

I worked in NHS all my career. I never remember a time of golden plenty when everything was fine. There were always shortages, not enough staff, not enough equipment etc etc. We were always having to make do. So many changes too. Piles of headed notepaper with the latest logo on it for whatever new incarnation of health board had come along.
The only thing that was constant was the patients. However, they seemed to become more demanding and took health care more for granted. I couldn't believe how many 'failed appointments' there were latterly.
Older people seemed most appreciative.

Countrylife "It needs to be run on a business plan approach not for profit but for the ability to sustain itself. As I understand it, it is run by a lot of people who have no idea of how to run anything." I agree. I cannot comment on medical care but everything else seems to be far too complex and could easily be simplified and many costs could be cut. Why have I had a letter telling me they are sending me a bowel testing kit? I can understand it for first timers but not those of us who have done it before. I could list many more

Nonnie, you have the perfect example of total waste. My husband sometimes gets two or even three letters for the same appointment.

I truly believe that the nurses, doctors and other medics in the system care, otherwise why put themselves through all that training and put up with an often moaning public and in most cases rotten pay and hours.

However, the admin side that is just a job like any other so if you get someone who has no pride in their work then they are going to cause problems. Multiply that by the number of people any of us has ever met who had that attitude at work and it’s no wonder chaos often ensues behind the scenes. Then of course the secretary or records person who does give a damn will be working harder to try and compensate for those that don’t.

Whoever, takes it on has a hell of a task ahead but I am hopeful that soon someone will get in there and save it for future generations. Otherwise it doesn’t bear thinking about!

Ilovecheese, Plasters have been applied here and there to the NHS but there has never been a total restructuring. It’s a bit like a building with multiple annexes..like most hospitals..stuff added on willynilly that causes more problems in the long term. What I am saying is that we need someone to stand back and look at it as a whole.

I know what you mean about wastage in the NHS. My husband is waiting for a minor operation. He was called months ago for a pre op assessment. Bloods taken/urine tested/ecg completed. This required two professionals in on a Saturday. However the time in which this assessment counted ran out and he was called to be reassesses last Saturday. Now I know that emergency ops take precedent and a surgeon off sick stops everything but it must be expensive to have to recall people for these checks. If his op doesn't happen in the next 6 weeks he will have to be recalled again. Can't help thinking there must be a cheaper way but have no clue how. Really do appreciate the NHS though. So I will be voting for the Party I think most likely to protect and enhance it.

Privitisation of provision does not mean that you will have to pay for your health care, just that whoever provides it will be private.

Last year I needed a carpal tunnel syndrom operation. Demand for this operation in my area is very high and waits in all the NHS clinics in the county were all at least one year. As a result the local NHS trust, or whatever their current name is, had signed a contract with a local private hospital. That had a much shorter list, so I went there.

My operation was done in a private facility paid for by the NHS and did not cost me a penny.

We need to separate the idea of the NHS paying private contractors for providing a free at point of use service to all NHS patients, from health services being provided by private providers and the patient having to pay to use them.

Those are two very different concepts and should not be confused.

Labour

I appreciate your point, Monica, but if private providers are performing surgery on NHS patients they are not doing it free of charge. NHS funds will be paying the private providers. As there will be a profit in there for the private providers then it is more than possible that the NHS is paying more than it would have cost them had they done the surgery in-house.

We all know that the NHS has been short of funding over the past decade with a consequent strain on its services. Which is why private providers have been used for NHS work.

This feels so 'expensive' that I'm wondering if I'm missing something somewhere?

P.S I've tried googling for information about this but with not much success.

MaizieD I quite agree about the profits going outside the service. But I was simply trying to point out that private provision is not the same as you paying private providers for your care and that difference is often not realised or understood.

I think it is not always realised or understood that that is the case, M0nica*, because some politicians may be misleading voters.

Labour.

Nonnie I had one of those letters too, but it wasn't sent by the NHS. It was sent by the private lab doing the testing.

MOnica I agree with you. My father had cataracts removed at a private hospital, paid for by the NHS. It can be cheaper for the NHS to pay outside providers rather than having to employ staff itself.

Given that the Tories have been in government for nine years and the service I personally receive from my GP and occasionally hospital visits, has never been so bad and that the NHS has undergone numerous reorganisations/restructuring, I wouldn't ever trust the Tories. I understand the national picture is the same. After all this time in government, they can't blame anybody else.

It can be cheaper for the NHS to pay outside providers rather than having to employ staff itself.

Now, that's what I was looking for yesterday. Is it cheaper?

With regard to lagging behind Europe you will find that in many European countries those who can afford it pay for health care and their taxes and National Insurance contributions are higher. Maybe that is the answer.

As Growstuff pointed out on another thread so many don’t pay tax or NI and that could bring in more for the service. It still needs to be spent wisely of course but that’s another story!

Government spending is not paid for out of taxation. This is a myth, it is untrue. It has, however, been a most convenient lie to justify cutting public investment to the bone.

Government could spend whatever it wanted to on the NHS.