Four day week

Might be wiser if there was a real commitment to enforcing the 40 hour week first. Our public servants, especially in education and NHS, are propping up the system by giving their all and working ridiculous hours.

What will it mean for schools ?

Rosina, many companies including our own have been operating four day working weeks for a considerable time. Basically it involves working longer hours over those assigned four days rather than five.

The above has the advantage for any employee that has a long commute to work of keeping that expenditure lower. It can also have the advantage for the employer of bringing forward a "rolling week" that can cover weekends.

Where we have introduced four day week working it has proved to be very popular.

Will doctors surgeries open for 4 days a week ?

Many GPs already work part-time, so it probably wouldn't make any difference.

I can see it would be more problematic in schools, which need to stay open five days a week. Most staff are usually full-time and part-timers are often difficult to timetable. The priority in schools should be making sure that teachers don't do more than 32 and half hours "directed time" plus planning and preparation etc.

I was thinking of the staff not the doctors

Why would it be more problematic in schools than anywhere else ?

I can see how it would work in an ideal world but we don't have Utopia. As yehbutnobut said some services are already being propped up by staff working long hours. This needs to be addressed first.

Anniebach Quote [ Will doctors surgeries open for 4 days a week?] End Quote.

Anniebach any industry or profession can introduce a four day rolling week if those that work in that industry or profession are willing to engage in such working

I am certainly no expert in the medical profession but I would have thought that a four day on, three days off rolling week would enable Doctors surgeries to open seven days per week if required.

People might find this interesting. Report on a trial of 4 day working in NZ:

www.theguardian.com/money/2019/feb/19/four-day-week-trial-study-finds-lower-stress-but-no-cut-in-output

Worth reading all of it, not just the headline

Microsoft have introduced four day working at one of their large establishments in Anerica. To there surprise that at the end of six months productivity had increased by fifteen percent.

Which proves "thinking outside the box" can bring great rewards.

My D already works 4 days a week----@ 12hrs a day ! 5am/5pm

Apologies should be "their" above not "there".

I don't think it means schools, businesses, GP's etc. will only be open for 4 days a week...more that each individual employee works for four days - at however long their working day is negotiated. Less commuting, less damage to our air quality, more family/leisure days opening up more retail opportunities. Seems like a fair plan to me

It won't work.

I don’t think it will work for all

Comparing Microsoft with small businesses is daft.

We need far more detail of how this would work in practice and hear views of employers, employees, trade unions etc.

A rolling week offering NHS services 7 days a week sounds good but we need to see how the funding would work, how many extra staff would be needed, where they would be found, the years of training required etc.

At the moment this seems to be just a soundbite, an election pleaser.

I understood that the Labour idea was effectively decreasing hours worked by everyone working 20% fewer hours - but for the same pay!!!!!

The idea is that it will help reduce unemployment. I can see so many mistakes in this policy, but here is one to start with.

How many unemployed doctors, nurses, teachers, IT experts, Chartered engineers, Solicitors, Accountants are there on the unemployment register? We will need a massive influx of immigrants to fill all the extra highly-skilled jobs. Except that many, many companies will go bust when there wage bills rise by 20 percent for existing staff, plus employing more, so there will be fewer jobs and a big rise in the number unemployed

Grandad1943, the staff might have been making a special effort in that time knowing the system was on trial and they wanted it to be permanent. They might relapse into 80% efficiency once the 4 day week has become permanent!

I would guess that the 4 day week would not cover everything, mainly for what few industries we have left.
It gives permission legally for businesses to change their work practices to be changed if they so wish and if it is suitable. It doesn't mean that everyone should suddenly work a day less!
GP surgeries are now mainly manned by part time staff from the GPs through to the receptionists and dispensary staff. At my own GPs, think the only full timer is the practice manager! Long gone are the days when the GP was expected to work for 8 hours, plus cover night calls and weekends - unless they are happy to work either in an out of hours centre or the local 111 call centre.

How many unemployed doctors, nurses, teachers, IT experts, Chartered engineers, Solicitors, Accountants are there on the unemployment register?

We won't know with any certainty because people who work one hour a fortnight are counted as employed, so won't be on 'the register'. We certainly hear it reported that graduates find it hard to get jobs that use their qualifications and end up working as baristas and similar. Who knows what skills are going untapped at the moment.

As the few experiments in 4 day working have reported increased productivity that could mean that so many extra workers might not be needed.

But there are so many variables. AS Grandad pointed out, it could be viable in sectors where we increasingly expect 7 day access anyway. And in office work do we actually need bodies there Mon- Fri? If the work can be done more productively in 4 days it makes little difference. 5 day working is not divinely ordained.

As for the effect on prices and profit, much the same arguments were made about reductions in hours and working weeks from the Victorians onwards.

I'd like to see much more detail before I start criticising it.

sodapop In my past life, I was responsible at one time for timetabling in a big comprehensive school, so I know that timetabling part-timers causes problems.

If schools are to be open for five days a week, but staff only work four days a week, it's inevitable that many classes would end up being "split", which isn't ideal, and increases the time needed for co-ordination. It also means that tutors aren't available every day and that staff aren't always available for staff meetings, CPD sessions or parents' evenings, etc. At the moment, part-timers often come into school on their day(s) off anyway.

Don’t know what the latest take on this is, but I understood when it was originally mooted, it meant every worker would do a 4 day, 32 hour week, but on the same wage as before.
Bit of backtracking since then I think.

M0nica so the £6 billion that Labour have promised over and above the Tory spending on the NHS is just a drop in the ocean if wages are in effect to go up by 20%.

I can see what will, happen, as happens now.

Nurses and other essential staff will sign on to agencies and come in on their time off to do the same jobs as their permanent jobs, all costing the NHS far more in wages as agencies take their cut.

Upon reflection, it sounds like 'back of an envelope politics', ill-thought through.

growstuff does that also mean that even more teachers would be timetabled to take classes in subjects which are not their specialty?

I've heard grumbles before now, that with staff shortages, some teachers are just supervising classes and doing not much more than that.
Disastrous for the pupils as they approach exams.