Do we tend to ignore the true facts ?

.annepl So in your analysis no government cares about the welfare of the people and that would include Labour?

As for your thoughts on my manner- meh! I haven’t noticed you asking the foul mouthed on here to calm down. Same old, same old.

Likewise your link to a guardian article. There is a certain section of the GN community constantly providing links to some article or other thinking that somehow proves their point. Said articles are often from the guardian or other leftwing publication. I prefer to observe and think for myself not regurgitate someone else’s words and phrases. There has always been inequality in the world. This country does not have poverty in the very real sense that other parts of the world has. All governments should work towards reducing or eliminating poverty but this isn’t the cause of the current divisions in this country. Brexit wasn’t about poverty and I’m pleased you don’t care if I think you’re stupid. Your views certainly are and misinformed.

I can think for myself but if I find an article that expresses a lot of my views its easier than typing a lengthy response as I have M.E. ( but actually according to our wonderful government there is nothing wrong wrong with me ).

I think you know my views aren't stupid.?

So I put my family first and their needs came above voting Labour.

Can't just think of our own needs when we vote.

wrong

Just for you tickingbird ?

www.jrf.org.uk/report/brexit-vote-explained-poverty-low-skills-and-lack-opportunities

Agree annepl.

Good posts Ticking

annep.... your comments imply that no government of any
Political party do things for the good of the people in this country.I find that astonishing.Think of all the good policies that have helped us from both sides, over the years.
Given that you don’t think that Labour has done anything either, did you imagine that Corbyn ( had he won power) would have done any good?Is that the problem as far as you see it ( and Gaga too) that you think only a far left government would be any good? Genuine question here.

The ONLY perspective I will give on here in relation to your question LG (as in, I'm not going to engage in an argument/angry discussion) is that I think a far left government would help the poor more than the current government.

I'm not bothered about whether it be Corbyn or any other leader. If they help the poor, they'd be OK by me.

End of comment.

I’m not wanting any arguement/ angry discussion either,
But find Annep’s posts baffling.That no governments ever,
Should be given credit for improving the lives of people in the UK, is certainly quite a comment!

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Well I don't find Annepl silly, I actually agree with them. I also read the Guardian and other rags but find the Guardian backs up my views. Also Annieback, I voted Labour despite not liking or trusting JC but thought well who else? and JC won't be leader for ever. He was the best of a bad bunch.

To agree with a lot of the points in that article is not the same as thinking that we are on the way to Nazism though.

For those of you who pooh pooh the idea that we are well on the way to having a fascist government I am posting the words of Lord Sumption (*not by any means* a liberal leftie) in conclusion of his Reith Lectures series last year. I think if a tory establishment figure feels this we should be prepared to think, not dismiss out of hand.

There is already plenty of gloomy speculation about how long democracy can last against an adverse economic background without my adding to it. Prophets are usually wrong, but one thing I will prophesy; we will not recognise the end of democracy when it comes, if it does. Advanced democracies are not overthrown, there are no tanks on the street, no sudden catastrophes, no brash dictators or braying mobs, instead, their institutions are imperceptibly drained of everything that once made them democratic. The labels will still be there, but they will no longer describe the contents, the facade will still stand, but there will be nothing behind it, the rhetoric of democracy will be unchanged, but it will be meaningless - and the fault will be ours.

I really don't think he would have said any of this had he felt that our democracy was in healthy, full working order.

Lemongrove that is not what I said.

MaisieD interesting.

If the deleted message was for me just to let you know I didn't see it.

Censorship rules. There was nothing in that post that merited it’s deletion but when you get the better of people with reasoned arguments it’s their preferred refuge I suppose.

Keep telling yourself that tickingbird. I didn't see or report you, before you leap on me as the culprit.

I DO think we are moving away from democracy. Nothing about our election was honest. Brexit was misrepresented. BJ is PM in name only. He is a known racist. They are already going back on things they promised. An unelected man is leading the country. Our NHS is being destroyed, bit by bit, DESPITE the Tories response to the Labour campaign being that they would DEFINITELY not sell it off. And that is because the power behind the government will do whatever they want, and a welfare state isn't what capitalism needs.

I cannot see a way for any other party to have a fair chance at being elected. The power structures that pull the strings to get capitalists into government hold all the power. I'm not even TALKING about the political parties.

We do not have a choice. We get who they decide. BJ is a puppet dictator, happy to play the game for the prestige and acclaim. At least if it was a proper Tory party government they would be running the show.

If you choose to believe. ....

Well said Gagajo. Unfortunately I don't have the energy...

Gagajo I support every word you've written and we shouldn't forget that in the 1930s in the run up to Nazi Germany there were many who looked away at what was happening and who continued to do so - arrests, deportations, attacks on Jews and the disabled, concentration camps around the corner.

Sorry but at this point, I haven't got time to put up a link to statistics for some to disbelieve but we have the highest ever usage of food banks and this morning the Guardian is running a story about increasing numbers of homeless people sleeping in wheelie bins and being killed when undetected by operatives. Horrible for the latter, a lifestyle choice for the former? I think not.

I agree with everything in your last post, Gagajo. It was the leap between that and the idea that we are heading for something to rival the Holocaust that was a step too far for me.

We had a neo Nazi on QT last week. AND the audience producer of the show is one also (on the Question Time post).

How do you not see this is becoming dangerous? They are being given air time on our state supported TV channel.

The Windrush deportations; the 101 year old Italian man who's lived here all his life and now he has to prove his right to stay (and many like him); a benefit system set up that many can't access or understand that is deliberately punitive and set to deliberately delay and fail some; tests on disabled and sick people assessing them as fit to work in inhuman and unfair ways; openly racist attacks on people with foreign names or who speak a foreign language in public; attacks on Chinese people in the wake of the Coronavirus; abusive and shocking treatment of some people of supposed lesser intelligence being mooted by a government employee who is only sacked after journalists and others keep protesting; a government who attempt to let only some, approved, journalists into public briefings, only failing because the journalists walked out en masse (hurrah); growing wealth inequality and access to resources such as health and education which should be good and available to all. We should ALL be very worried.

Anniezz09 you have never spoken a truer word. We should all be very worried.

anniezzz09, Very well said.

We live in scary times. As I've said before on other forums, I used to feel the UK was safer than the US. My family and I retreated here from the US because I didn't want my daughter to grow up in such a racist, dangerous country. NOW, I don't want my grandson to grow up in the UK.