As well as starving the NHS, Education has been starved by this government too.

Mollygo

Cutting TA’s is more to do with the fact that pay increases have had to come out of existing school budgets-no more money being put in. Not to do with TA’s not being valuable. Although when I think of some TAs . . .

What is wrong with some TAs?

Also that's the news article I shared Mollygo. I was commenting on the people who agree with said cuts and don't think TAs are necessary

I'm well out of the loop of primary schools, but when my children were there TAs were rare, and tended to be brought in to supervise children with SEN rather than as more general assistants, although there was one qualified teacher who didn't want classroom responsibility but ran all sorts of things (lost property, book sales, the organisation of music lessons - that sort of thing).

Otherwise it was down to volunteer mothers, many of whom had too much time on their hands, and they caused no end of problems. They would see a snapshot of a 'situation' in a classroom, and gossip at the gates about the teacher's ability to handle it, the child's behaviour, the child's ability, what they would have done better, and so on, all without any context, training or understanding. Some would go in every week, and treated it (in their heads) as a job, so became an unelected, unqualified and uninterviewed 'key person' to organise parents and take on roles they hadn't been asked to fill. Obviously the gossip would get back to the mothers, and there were 'she said that she said' situations on a regular basis, that must have been exhausting for the teaching staff to handle diplomatically.

I think it is far better to have TAs who are staff, so subject to rules of confidentiality and so on, and who are limited in scope to what the teachers actually want them to do. It is also only fair that the role is a paid one, as it is clearly important. Also, Heads can tailor the training of TAs to the needs of the school, eg a friend of my daughter has a boy with pronounced ADHD, and the TA has had training in dealing with this so she can be of more help. I think the idea is that she will follow him up the school, but obviously her training can be applied to other children as needed too.

That shouldn't have made me laugh, Doodledog but your middle paragraph did resonate with me. Perhaps you might have thought I had too much time on my hands when my DC were very young 😃 but I volunteered at school, went in regularly to listen to children read individually and helped some with their reading which was something the teacher couldn't always do. I got on with it quietly.

There was also a very active PTA there (a London school) and, of course, the Queen Bees were always in school, organising and taking charge of the Headmaster who seemed quite happy to let them get on with it.

It was rather like Motherland 😂

I actually started as a volunteer. The teachers were the ones who told me I should train. I would never have gossiped about what went on in the classroom, ever

I was also a mum who went in to help with reading and art but I was told recently that mum’s are not so welcome now for just the reasons you mention Doodledog. I believe in our County schools have been told there is no money at all to provide one to one help for children with special needs, this means the teacher and one TA find in almost impossible to teach. Some of the children are very disruptive and need a lot of help

luluaugust
It seems to depend on the county authority. The lack of money is certainly the fault of the government, for not funding staff pay rises including those of TAs, and expecting them to be paid out of existing school budgets.
I still haven’t heard ‘people’ n. pl saying that we shouldn’t have TAs.
We, evidently are lucky in the numbers of TAs, whether 1-1 or class OR we have an increasing number of children who either come to school with a funded EHCP or are assessed as needing one whilst at school.

Mollycoddle yes I think TAs are really valuable, without them I know class life would be really difficult

Yorkshire Evening Post 19th January
15 per cent drop in numbers of children starting school in Yorkshire therefore drop in budget allocations.

Any one picked up on this?

Missed that one, but it’s true. Schools’ main funding is bums on seats.
Is there a reason for fewer children starting- low birth rate in 2018-2019? Or is there another cause?

I almost said pass on this question. But
maybe:

1. 40 per cent of marriages ending in divorce
2. Perhaps financial insecurities delay starting a family
3. Women might want to establish a career path and wait until mid 30s

I don’t think we can blame Boris directly!

I wasn't saying that all parent helpers were busybodies, but that many of them were, in my experience, and that I think that TAs with proper contracts are a far better solution.

Agreed -not all parent helpers are busybodies, very few in my experience.

Now, helpers have an induction session with the Head and are asked to sign a form agreeing not to discuss what they see or hear in class. The form also contains a reminder that, should they see anything which gives them concern, they should report it to the class teacher or the head. We don’t have many parent helpers now because of their work commitments, but there are a few grandparents.

Doodledog

I wasn't saying that all parent helpers were busybodies, but that many of them were, in my experience, and that I think that TAs with proper contracts are a far better solution.

I agree, because I do know the type you mean, Doodledog, some of us other helpers were the victims of these Queen Wasps' stings too, as well as the HT and the teachers!

Although I used to enjoy my Fridays in the school library.

Hey,
@Keir_Starmer
! You're on record as saying on TV that you believe Corbyn was being smeared, that you stood by him & his actions, & that he was a decent leader and a good man.

Now you claim he was the exact opposite of those things.

Were you lying then, or are you lying now?

@simonmaginn
'I want to pay tribute to Jeremy Corbyn, who led our party through some really difficult times, who energised our movement, and who’s a friend as well as a colleague.' Starmer, K

'Corbyn allowed hate to spread in the party.' Starmer, K

A Starmer for every occasion.

Isn't it awful when the only choice is between a bunch of public school toffs who don't care and a leader who sways and wavers depending on which way the wind is blowing and what the mainstream media are saying.
Whatever happened to a social conscience and believing in support for the poorest and weakest?

Grany

Hey,
@Keir_Starmer
! You're on record as saying on TV that you believe Corbyn was being smeared, that you stood by him & his actions, & that he was a decent leader and a good man.

Now you claim he was the exact opposite of those things.

Were you lying then, or are you lying now?

@simonmaginn
'I want to pay tribute to Jeremy Corbyn, who led our party through some really difficult times, who energised our movement, and who’s a friend as well as a colleague.' Starmer, K

'Corbyn allowed hate to spread in the party.' Starmer, K

A Starmer for every occasion.

And what does this have to do with the topic of this discussion, Grany?

Why don't you start your own Starmer hate thread?

I would like to return to the original premise of this post. The IFS said the cut to the education budget etc ….well do you know if the IFS took into account the drop in population. Simply 15 per cent less children born?

Just because we continually have the wool pulled over our eyes, doesn’t mean it need be that way!

The original report is available to read on ifs.org.uk

ronib

I would like to return to the original premise of this post. The IFS said the cut to the education budget etc ….well do you know if the IFS took into account the drop in population. Simply 15 per cent less children born?

Just because we continually have the wool pulled over our eyes, doesn’t mean it need be that way!

The problem is the 15% reduction in the birth rate will not affect education until 2027. Until then although the numbers of primary school children have begun to decrease they have been rising since 2010, with no equivalent rise in education spending. Even when primary school numbers drop, secondary school numbers will still be on the increase. And they cost more.
What you are essentially saying is it's OK to cut budgets because there won't be so many children in the future, Given the rising costs of everything even that doesn't make sense economically.
www.statista.com/statistics/412219/school-students-in-the-uk/

There won't be a significant drop in secondary schools until 2026
explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-statistics/national-pupil-projections
Mind I seriously doubt the projections for out of school learning numbers. There is evidence that more and more children are being excluded from mainstream education.

Glorianny I am not saying anything. This year has seen a shortfall in children starting school I believe.
My understanding is that 700000 less pupils are anticipated over the coming years.
I wonder if the figures given in the ifs report are all that transparent as there’s provision for the age range 2 to 4 years now which wasn’t in place around 2010?
I have just been gathering kindling for my fire … so maybe that’s enough intellectual endeavour for today.

There is evidence that more and more children are being excluded from mainstream education.

Are you suggesting that they are dropping out of mainstream education altogether?

I'm talking 10 years ago now, but we had a Pupil Referral Unit for children excluded from school, and we have a number of 'special schools' which can take on children with behavioural problems.

Alternative education numbers are rising. A substantial number of these children are what was termed Special Needs. (80%)
commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8522/

Perhaps far more worrying are the numbers of children persistently absent. The government cut the funding for attendance officers. So who bothers? schoolsweek.co.uk/most-councils-dont-know-how-many-children-are-missing-education/

MaizieD

^There is evidence that more and more children are being excluded from mainstream education.^

Are you suggesting that they are dropping out of mainstream education altogether?

I'm talking 10 years ago now, but we had a Pupil Referral Unit for children excluded from school, and we have a number of 'special schools' which can take on children with behavioural problems.

PRU’s still exist. I’m currently teaching a child who spent most of the autumn term at the one nearest us. He has a 1-1 TA to facilitate his reintegration into school.

I don't want to be controversial but I'm sure quite of few of that percentage will be children with SEN too and complex home living situations, the very children who should be in school