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Pedants' corner

I done me best, but...

(104 Posts)
AussieGran59 Tue 29-Mar-22 03:40:46

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Witzend Sun 22-May-22 10:21:09

AFAIK a ‘rubber’ means a condom across the pond, Puzzled, so perhaps not so surprising!

I once read a novel that was supposed to have been ‘translated’ from American into U.K. English.

One thing the editor evidently missed, was, ‘He patted her fanny as he went past.’ ?

Puzzled Sat 21-May-22 19:11:56

Different dialects use different words for the same thing.
From where I originate,a female sheep ,is man EWE. In the Yorkshire Dales, it is a YOW.
In southern France, a particular alcoholic drink is pronounced as "Burr". In Calais, the same liquid is called what sounds to my Anglicised ears, as "Beer". Which it is not!
When I was child living in and around Wolverhampton, I could distinguish a dweller in Birmingham from a local resident, or someone from Dudley by their accent. And yet they were all saying the same words!
And as for the useage of those dwelling in other lands that speak English! My director (An American) rebuked his secretary for using a "rubber" instead of an "eraser"
As used to be said in Nautical (Or should that be Marine?) circles, "Different ships, different splices"!

Cabbie21 Thu 05-May-22 08:51:27

Exactly, Biglouis. As a former teacher of foreign languages, I can say that pupils from other countries need to hear correct English. They can get used to local accents and dialect words if they hear them enough, but they do expect grammar to be correct.
Local accents, dialects, pronunciation can be delightful. But if a speaker cannot be understood, they need to do something about it.
Schools have a responsibility to prepare pupils for the world beyond the local school and that includes knowing correct grammar. Many people are bilingual, in that they speak differently at home and at work, and they know which register of language to use in context or home, work etc.
Of course in personal relationships, if you cannot accept someone as they are, maybe a relationship is not going to be viable.

biglouis Thu 05-May-22 02:05:30

As a native scouser I began to lose my local accent when I moved into a professional environment. I lost it entirely when I became an academic as my overseas students would not have understood me.

I still miss the people and the humour.

Grammaretto Mon 11-Apr-22 10:12:05

I grew up in NZ but my mother, who thought she spoke the King's English (though she had a chi chi accent from her childhood in the British Raj) hated the Kiwi accent.
I was conflicted but found solace later in life when I read Bill Bryson's book
"Mother Tongue" It explains how language and accents develop. Words taken to America, for example, were lost here but are still used there. ie Gotten.

I married a Scot (I loved his voice) and am now trying to learn Gaelic to challenge my ageing brain and to encourage my DGC who are also being taught in school.

Caleo Sat 02-Apr-22 10:32:41

Witzend:

"depending on the sort of job they’re aiming for, such ‘quirks’ could very likely hold them back or affect their chances of promotion."

True. It's best for the children to learn standard English for that reason, and also because learned books are written in standard forms of language.

However children also learn to be creative .Unusual or local languages are often more sociable and more creative than standard forms, so the two sorts of English are taught, and the children are taught the proper occasions for the use of the one or the other.

Caleo Sat 02-Apr-22 10:21:48

I sympathise with the OP's annoyance but it's misplaced. It's more disappointing when someone is unable due to stupidity to express an opinion .

Unusual vocabularies are not evidence of stupidity. It can be stupid to cling to what some school taught was 'proper' English.

Toots Sat 02-Apr-22 06:05:14

Oh that's "fraffly" brilliant Witzend .. really made me laugh out loud!.. ?

ElaineI Thu 31-Mar-22 14:14:19

Thanks grannybuy and poshpaws, Doric is the 4th language I could not remember before. You've both reminded me.

Witzend Thu 31-Mar-22 09:43:02

Accent is one thing, but IMO grammar is quite another, and IMO it’s unhelpful to tell or imply to anyone (perhaps especially schoolchildren) that basic grammatical mistakes such as ‘we was’ or ‘I done it’ don’t matter.

They may not in future, but depending on the sort of job they’re aiming for, such ‘quirks’ could very likely hold them back or affect their chances of promotion.

I know it’s popular to assume that nobody but nitpicking old pedants care about these things any more, but I really don’t think that’s true.

Georgesgran Thu 31-Mar-22 09:33:13

Lern yersel Geordie used to be a popular book up here in the NE. My SiL in Cheshire (and her family) also say - going golf or going shop.

Oldnproud Thu 31-Mar-22 08:35:59

There's a time and a place for everything.

In speech, I almost always use the contraction it'll, not the full it will. In informal writing, very rarely, and, having given this some thought (my excuse being that I had nothing better to do as I ate breakfast grin), I don't think I have ever used it in formal writing.

That's why, as I read an email from Barclays this morning about the introduction of new charges for replacement debit cards, the words, " ..., it'll arrive ..." stopped me in my tracks, seeming odd to me in a formal business correspondence.

I don't see it as wrong, but it did feel out of place, more so than the other contractions in the email, such as we'll and you'd.

Maybe on another day, though, I would not even have noticed it or given it any thought.

Sgilley Thu 31-Mar-22 07:13:30

Nannypiano. Fret not you haven’t missed much!!

Sgilley Thu 31-Mar-22 07:11:15

Witzend. Brilliant love it Frightfully good !!

Deedaa Wed 30-Mar-22 23:54:29

When I was at primary school in the 50s, in quite a poor area, the teachers went to great lengths to get everyone's grammar reasonably correct. They also managed to get most children reading, some slower than others but enough to get by.

HiPpyChick57 Wed 30-Mar-22 23:49:22

At the end of the day… who gives a ?!

poshpaws Wed 30-Mar-22 23:45:04

nannypiano

This might be the chance to vent my feelings. Too good to miss. I get so wrangled when our Prime Minister when making his speeches, always says ter instead of to. For someone with an expensive education such as his, I would expect an example in grammar. I am so busy listening for this error, I realise L haven't heard a word he has said.

Don't worry *nannypiano" he never says anything useful/true anyway. wink

poshpaws Wed 30-Mar-22 23:43:12

I moved from the Scottish Borders up to Aberdeenshire and was lost for a while, 'cos it's Doric you find up here. First time somebody asked "ye a'right ma quine?" I felt very privileged to have fit in well!

(It means "are you alright my girl?") Quine is used for girls & women of all ages. The male equivalent is "Loon".

I have to admit though to being a bit of a grammar policewoman myself.

It's mostly punctuation - or lack thereof - that sets me off, but I cannot bear, for example, hearing Jonathon Ross leaving letters off the ends of words.

grannybuy Wed 30-Mar-22 22:08:02

Another from N East Scotland, and grew up speaking Doric. Seadragon, my granny also used ‘ contermashus ‘. I knew what she meant, but never knew where it came from until I saw the real word in your post. I thought that her word was the real one! I went to a grammar school after the eleven plus, and I remember relatives and neighbours telling me that I’d have to speak posh when I went to my new school. I became bilingual!

GrauntyHelen Wed 30-Mar-22 19:03:38

Grammar dialect and regional accents are very different things Poor grammar ought not to be encouraged Dialects must be nurtured and regional accents accepted as valid

nexus63 Wed 30-Mar-22 18:55:03

i am from scotland and we have different ways of talking, i hate when someone corrects me and the way i am speaking, you would only have to correct me once and i would tell you to shut up and mind your own business. the uk has so many different dialects and ways of speaking.

Shandy57 Wed 30-Mar-22 18:47:22

I remember going to see the teacher on parent's evening at school, and she said "I ain't got no problem with xxxx". My husband and I just looked at each other. She left shortly afterwards.

ElaineRI55 Wed 30-Mar-22 18:27:45

There appear to be between 10 and 21 languages indigenous to the UK and probably some dialects that are not separate languages.
Sometimes, therefore, we may hear something that sounds wrong to us but may actually be correct!
That aside, I don't think there is much point in trying to correct (real) errors in other adults unless you know they would prefer you to do so. Best to value their good points and bite your tongue probably.
If the friend, colleague or relative is going to give a speech or present a report to someone, hopefully they would welcome comments and corrections from others.
It's really only in official publications or speeches by politicians etc that I find myself getting annoyed at errors. I have been known to contact a company to point out an error in grammar, punctuation or spelling. Mine are, of course, always perfect! wink

Alioop Wed 30-Mar-22 17:48:48

Aldon & Yammy so good to hear. I love my Norn Iron accent and our wee words for certain things...a poke instead of an ice cream cone as an example, but I know some now who would cringe at some of our sayings and use of certain words grin

GreenGran78 Wed 30-Mar-22 17:24:17

If I can help by sharing Facebook posts about missing people, lost dogs, etc. I always do so.
This morning there was a post saying how upset a family was because their caravan had been 'robbed'. Wanting to help spread the news, if it had been taken, I messaged, "Has it been robbed, or stolen?" Back came the reply, "Robbed."
"What is missing?" I asked. "The caravan. It's been robbed off the drive."
Sometimes using the wrong word can cause a lot of confusion!

While I sometimes feel a little irritated by such errors, I would never try to tell an adult that they aren't well educated like what I am! ?