Is Islam a religion of love and peace?

Read the essay - it is absolutely right. We of all people should know that appeasement is the road to disaster.

when I've just caught up - great post.

Very measured, sensible article bags

Sorry. That isn't clear. I mean why the film should be suppressed, not freedom of speech.

Very good essay on that awful film, and why we should not let it and the reaction to it change our belief in freedom of speech, but giving a reason why it should be suppressed.

Sometimes I wonder if we hadn't gone into Iraq when we did, maybe Sadam would have been deposed when the Arab Spring gained momentum and spread to the rest of the Arab world. I think it would have been far preferable for the people of Iraq to have determined their own fate rather than have America/UK and allies sticking their oar in.

Yes, the 9/11 bombers got what they wanted didn't they? Worldwide fear, suspicion, wars, and a widening gap between Muslims and the rest. Who knows what is going to be the result of the Middle East instability, but it is pretty certain it won't be good for women, minorities, and personal freedom.

Of course, when talking about Islam it is easy to forget that divisions within that faith - sunni, shia, etc can be every bit as wide as the Islam/Christian divide.

Which all leaves me glad to be free of religious ties myself.

baNANA You don't have to tell me. I was on the streets marching and took along Mr absent who had never been on a protest march before. The last timer
was my mother's 92nd birthday and I explained why we were going to march and that I had organised a plate of sandwiches, some hot soup and tea in Thermoses for her. "Dear God, my dear," she said. "I hope there isn't a war." If we'd had a wheelchair, she would have been there too.

I think so much goes back to "9/11". Of course, that was a terrible thing. I was surprised by how upset I was when flying into New York some while later by the gap where the twin towers used to be. But the US and, indeed, the West, have seen that as a seminal and defining event. So much these days is seen in the light of that day – a man with brown skin and a full beard boarding a plane is regarded with suspicion. France has outlawed facial coverings (clearly a law directed at Moslem women not protesters who wear masks). Them and us has become the norm.

Thank you,*when*, I can't add anything but appreciate what you have written.

I and my working colleagues, before retirement, received the hospiility of Muslims and visited mosques in a spirit of learning and integrating more, both professionally and in the commnities we worked and live in. When visiting one mosque at Christmas time, we were treated to mince pies and wished a Happy Christmas. This mosque was named by police as a source of recruitment for training young asian men to become terrorists. The elders were not aware of these alleged goings on, and came out in force to say 'not in our name.' the community was in uproar, and young men were held in Cat A custody, only to be released weeks later without charge. They sued the police for wrongful arrest. There was no community backlash because the elders advised them to keep the peace.

We held fund-raising events for the victims of the Kashmir earthquake, and presented this mosque with a cheque for £600, which was used towards medicines, hats, socks and blankets. A probation colleague drove through Kashmir villages with a Landrover stocked with supplies, risking her own life from bandits. She collected more money by having collection tins in her husband's greengrocery shop. They were stolen by white youths, who were taped on CCTV. They were not caught, and the community filled the collection tins again.

The Muslims I have known well give a percentage of their income for the less well off, ensure their neighbour has food, and look after their old people. They don't want war and are tolerant of other religions.

It puzzles me to think of ex-pat communities in countries like Spain, where there is no attempt to integrate and no issue about people holding to their own beliefs. Because we know about 'western' religions in general, there is a level of trust, but it seems Islam is seen as threatening to our way of life. It isn't. It's the fanatics and terrorists who threaten our safety, the police who manufacture false evidence and ignore crime done to minority ethnic groups, and the politicians who spin stories for their own ends. There so much damaging propaganda circulating, and now we are being fed stories about this film, but I bet we don't know the truth.

Middle East Peace Envoy Ha!, apparently he's not wanted in this capacity by many Arabs, funny that!

The few worthwhile things achieved by Blair are heavily outweighed by the travesties how many Iraqi people lost their lives during the occupation, 100,000? or more, not to mention our soldiers. He was George Bush's lapdog, he got into bed with a very right wing government who Labour should have been politically at odds with and dragged us into an illegal war, which Muslims now use against us. I'm with Desmond Tutu he should go on trial.

baNANA Hand of history and he was talking about Northern Ireland, where, to be fair, he achieved something worthwhile (together with others).

What I want to know, is why hasn't our "Middle East Peace Envoy" if this is still one of his many hats, been dispatched to smooth the troubled waters. I know he's busy acquiring properties left right and centre at the moment, but do believe he said something like felt the "hand or history/God on his shoulder", possibly both, so should be able to use his miraculous powers to sort something out! After all he and his mate Bush were responsible for creating a whole load of bad feeling in the Arab world in the first place.

I also know Muslims and worked with some and they don't seem to me to be very different from the rest of us.

Movedalot
I think you are right about the fear.
I have to say that all the Muslims I have ever met (which admittedly isn't many) are not very different from most of us - their priorities are their families' health and happiness.
I belong to a professional internet forum and I remember after the July 7th bombings, many Muslim members came onto the site to say 'not in my name.'
Three of the four bombers had been born and brought up in Britain, so what does that say about the influences of home life and education? Their friends and families were devastated that they had carried out these attacks, so the question remains, what does make someone become a fanatic?
profiles here

Sorry I meant Jane I expect she realised.

Maybe the more reasonable Muslims are frightened to speak out? I think I might be.

baNANA, fanatical Islamists would have the same view as you exactly. Their ultimate aim is to achieve world domination by means of jihad. Luckily the majority of Muslims don't share this aim and it should be our goal to integrate rather than marginalise them.

Joan do agree, it's all so tedious I think we have all had enough of those groups you refer to and the constant "shit stirring" which can result in the deaths of innocent people it's very irresponsible.

When I see the idiocy of those riots, all I want to say to them is 'Bloody grow up!'

They object to Islam being portrayed as evil, then prove the point they object to, by acting in an evil manner.

i do know the vast, huge majority of Muslims just want to live in peace, but they should come out of their cocoons and condemn the idiotic element en masse, instead of leaving it to non Muslims and the occasional sensible Muslim leader.

The whole thing just makes me turn away in utter contempt and disgust. I've had enough - enough of Islamic self righteousness, enough of fundamentalist so-called Christians such as the Westboro Baptists, enough of ulta-orthodox Jews causing bother to their fellow Israelis, and enough of shit-stirring film makers out to cause bother.

Muslims are not all Islamists. The latter are a fanatical politicised group modelling their faith on the Wahabi sect of Saudi Arabia, though other Muslim groups nowadays seem to be becoming radicalised as well. When our book group read 'The Reluctant Fundamentalist', we came to realise how otherwise moderate Muslims came to be radicalised after 9/11 by the treatment they received in the media and from the public.

Bottom line I've come to the conclusion that the Western way of life and Islam in it's severest form are incompatible.

There is no jean posting on this thread movedalot. Take care.

Any 'mentality' that endorses violence because some idiot says something offensive is not a mentality to be respected.

Once again I agree with you Jean you so often seem to say what I think.

I think many Christians do feel the same immediacy as other faiths but they 'Hate the sin and love the sinner' as their face asks them to. It seems these militant Muslims hate both.