Thoughts from the Teapot

Face it - 'love your enemies' is pure stupidity - it's a sure way to get yourself annihilated.

Isn't the injunction to love your neighbours rather than enemies? When rampant tribalism was (is) the rule, neighbours (gentiles, samaritans, etc) would be automatically regarded as enemies, probably with reason, but we don't need to think like that now in most places.

I don't assume other Europeans, or Asians, or Africans, or Americans are my enemies. I assume they are not until they show me otherwise. That seems to me a reversal of the biblican assumption that the love thy neighbours thing was trying to tackle.

I think it is very easy to love our neighbours because they are generally like us. It is the fear of the unknown which probably makes us tribal. I do agree that travel and open mindedness probably helps over time. Just thinking about how different my life is now since the world has got so much smaller.

I don't think criticism is a bad thing but if it were constant and from a group of people I think I would look to myself to find out why?

'But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you' Matthew 5:44

I think it's pretty clear what was meant by enemies.

Thanks, nightowl. As quoted, it comes across as sanctimonious drivel. No wonder it tends to be converted to Love Thy Neighbour.

Bags not sure it is converted, I think there are two separate quotes, not sure though.

The language was different when it was written, which is why you think it is 'sanctimonious' now but surely not 'drivel'? Perhaps you would think that of me when I feel sorry for certain people who seem to have nothing better to do than be nasty to others. Not talking about you bags (had to write that as things get misunderstood on here!)

The NT also says: 'Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.'

I think because it is harder to feel sympathy for people whose views/beliefs/customs/appearance are different than it is for 'our sort of people' and much of what Jesus is quoted as saying is about love towards each other, love of God for us, this aspect is problematic. Loving your neighbour is easier, but 'as yourself'? And don't forget when Jesus was asked 'Who is my neighbour? (Luke 10:25) he replied with the parable of the Good Samaritan. Your 'neighbour' is your fellow human being, even if he or she is from a group with which your group is in a constant state of hostility. This level of humanity is not easy and isn't presented as easy. The Good Samaritan isn't described as having warm and fuzzy feelings towards the injured Jew, he is described as having cared for him, dressed his wounds, conveyed him to a place of safety and made sure he would be properly looked after (which he paid for).

If the message of 'love thy neighbour' is too strong or too biblical then how about 'live and let live'?

I certainly not loving 'him next door!'

But given your profession,Galen if you found him in a heap in the road I assume you wouldn't walk by on the other side?

Of course she wouldn't Lilygran. She'd be driving her mobility scooter.

What lily describes as the Good Samaritan's actions are what I would expect of any decent human being. I'm sure many gransnetters have helped people unknown to them just our of human compassion. At the time the story was written it would not have been expected because tribalism between the Jews and the Gentiles was the order of the day. The Good Samaritan was unusual.

I'm not sure about live and let live. On the surface it seems innocent enough, but I'm certainly not happy to let people who carry out female genital mutilation or other cruel, unnecessary practices, live as they are doing without fighting (in terms of verbal persuasion, education, etc) for changes. There are lots of other aspects of how other people live, or are forced to live, that I am not happy to simply 'let' without trying to improve things somehow. I'm sure many people feel like this, or else why would there be so many charities trying to make a positive difference to people's lives?

You may have a point, mal, but I tend to think of anything sanctimonious as drivel by definition. It's not drivel to feel sorry for someone, nor is it sanctimonious, but the way it was talked about could be. Admittedly, it could be hard to say the same thing as the bit I was talking about without seeming sanctimonious. I'd take some persuading to feel sorry for someone who is cruel or who persecutes others. It certainly wouldn't come naturally.

I've given. Him first aid before now. But at the moment after his remarks about me being selfish to live in my (owned) 4 bedroom house on my own, I'd probably run him over in my scooter!

No wonder you were annoyed, Galen - he should mind his own business!

He's just jealous because I'm better off than him.
He also told me that when people go to university they lose their common sense! and no notice should be taken of anything they say.
What with that and my headmistress saying that medical schools would not accept anyone who was in the least attractive, I'm starting to feel very inferior!

But you're an idealist, Bags. Unfortunately, not everybody does behave like the Good Samaritan, then or now. And Jesus was explaining that you have to go beyond just following the rules. Sanctimonious? I don't think it moves the discussion on to reinterpret or misrepresent bits and pieces of scripture because you don't like the sound of them!

I love the Good Samaritan story. Jesus told some good tales to illustrate his point.

I agree Bags 'live and let live' is rather insular. If what we say and do can influence others to change unacceptable behaviour I think we have a duty as citizens of the world to do so. I don't think we should criticise other's beliefs if they are not harming anyone else though. It is possible to change attitudes to so many things if enough people speak out.

Spot on, Aka

Movedalot said:
I don't think criticism is a bad thing but if it were constant and from a group of people I think I would look to myself to find out why?

Surely if a group constantly criticises one person that is bullying?
Just asking, as jingle would say.

I agree, lily, that not everyone behaves like the Good Samaritan, but a lot do and many people do a great deal more than what they just, as it were, trip over on the road. Just think about charities and what they achieve! Why do people do it if not out of compassion (loving their neighbours)? Of course there are plenty who don't help others much, and of course there are actually evil people, but I still maintain there are a lot of good samaritans in the world. There must be because most of the people I know as more than mere acquaintances are good samaritans, and that has always been the case. I don't think I've lived a completely sheltered life and I haven't always lived in the same place.

Anyway, nothing wrong with good ideals. They work as motivation.

I agree, jings, it's a good story and illustrates a point well.

Isn't it a bit arrogant to think that you can decide on what is unacceptable behaviour in others? What if others find your own behaviour unacceptable - are they entitled to try to influence you to change?
Of course, if you are referring to obviously harmful acts, like oppression and cruelty, I am sure we all agree that we must do all we can to stop it happening.

As a society, isn't that exactly what we do collectively, greatnan – decide what is acceptable behaviour within that society (which is increasingly global) and what isn't? And then we make laws about it.

Harmless stuff doesn't count, obviously.