Elitism

I suppose it is, but they are still an elite compared with your average yooman bean, at least as regards athleticism.

So... does being an elitist mean that one thinks having elites of various kinds in society is not necessarily a bad thing and may in fact be inevitable.

Other social animal species have elites as well.

I would say the necessary requirements for successfully running a country I are intelligence, excellent education, commonsense and the aptitude -and willingness- to do it.

I think it is possible for ordinary kids to attain high achievements. Take someone like John Humphreys. Nothing amazing in his background, but politicians respect/hate him. I think if he had turned to politics he would have been in with a good chance. And then there's John Major. He got the top job.And there are others.

I was going to say something else but I've forgotten it. #goodcompanywellgoodish

I think at least one definition of elitism is having an attitude that one is superior in every way to others because one is elite in some way. It is tantamount to pop stars believing their own legends - see Justin Bieber, for example.

That is where the eliteism thing goes wrong. It takes more than being a here today, gone tomorrow, celeb to be amongst the elite.

Why do I keep putting an 'e' in it?

There was a lot of research done in the 1970s (I think) which I can't be bothered to find to cite* suggesting that 'elite' groups don't run things as efficiently as groups of people bringing a variety of skills and intellectual ability to the task. All Alphas doesn't work in practice.

* I'm confident some GNs out there will remember their coursework for their MBA and will be able to quote chapter and verse.

Get you

jingle Recent research has shown that working class kids are increasingly less likely to "make good" as the odds are stacked against them. Elitism - in the sense of certain occupations and positions being largely reserved for an "elite" selection of the population - is a growing trend in the UK and there are fewer opportunities for those who don't have the "right" connections.

I have heard, on more than one occasion, that the last twelve words of your post is one of the biggest advantages that university education can give.

Other social animal species have elites as well.

Don't they tend to hold those positions though by the grace and favour of the group?

My children used to love watching Monkey World (or Business) and in one group of apes, there had been challenges for leadership which the alpha male saw off. However, one chimp was in with a good chance and the owners of MonkeyWorld said that whether or not the existing alpha was deposed depended largely on the females of the group - sadly they didn't explain why but it did show that the pole position is held only with the support of those beneath. I think the same is true of a pride of lions - on a nature programme I heard the commentator state that the male lion holds prime position, gets fed, only so long as the females allow him to stay; once they turf him out, he has the choice of life alone (dangerous) or to challenge another alpha lion.

"Don't they tend to hold those positions though by the grace and favour of the group?"

As I understand it, at least with other primates, no. They hold those positions through power and social 'class' (inheritance) and often with a certain amount of violence towards the lesser mortals. Same as the ape species Homo sapiens.

A male lion who wants to take over a pride from another male will fight the current alpha lion, often to death or serious injuries. Being alpha male lion depends on strength.

An alpha male taking over kills any cubs in the pride because they will not be his, then inseminates the females again.

I have completely lost the thread of this thread since it went all wildlife.

"Monkey World or Business" ?

"Monkey World or Business" ?

The entity is called 'Monkey World' but I can't remember what the programme was called - it was one or the other.

thatbags - we have received different information then on some aspects of it.

It's not just about strength, but also about their ability to do what is most useful / effective for the group. In the case of lions etc, are they still literally the prime, and in their prime, and most likely to father the necessary offspring. In human terms, that also defines the elite. But the original question refers to elitism, which has become a pejorative. In accepting that an elite can and will exist (we did accept that, I think), we are accepting that elitism does. What we do not like seems to be a self-awarded sense of entitlement to the advantages that a deserved elite can expect.

Horrible lion!

I guess we have, HD. My info is from wildlife programmes (Big Cat Diary being the source of lion info, if I remember correctly) and from DH who is a zoologist. I'm wondering if the thing about the females giving support to a new leader is quite subtle? I'll ask DH about it later. Some of the programmes about monkeys and apes that I saw showed that some females happily snuck off to have sex with males who were not the alpha and which he would have prevented if he'd known.

It's horroble from our perspective, jings, but not from an evolutionary perspective of passing on genes.

I included fitness to reproduce and protect the pride/group in the word strength, though not perhaps very obviously. Sorry.

Like it, icy— "self-awarded sense of entitlement". Yes, that is what grates.

Is there a GN Elite?

That's the thread knocked on the head then.

And why?

The way I see it, is that the concept of elitisim depends upon the value the individual gives to it. If enough individuals provide a recognition to a group of people that promotes and heigthens their stature, for whatever reason, then an elite is formed.

It reminded me of a headmaster local to where I used to live, in Kent. Schools in Kent are tiered still, and he had a comprehensive that was due to stop at age 16, but he asked to be able to keep pupils who showed promise until 18. Late developers, if you like. They did extremely well, against all odds and despite much bullying, but he came under fire in the press for constantly referring to them as 'My Elite'. It may have got up people's noses but I bet it bolstered the pride of the pupils enough for them to be able to cope with the 'you are a swot' name-calling and bullying. I know one of them went on to Oxford, ten years ago. Maybe there have been more since.

As bags said earlier, elitism is probably inevitable. Harold Wilson, Edward Heath , Maggie T , whatever your opinion of her, and Harold Wilson became part of the political elite because they put themselves out there. If anyone from an originally non elite background can come up,with the goods, ie the ability and the motivation to govern the country, and put themselves forward, we would probably vote for them. Do we want people in power just because they didn't go to Eton? Possibly this is not what the op I about, but elitism often crops up when discussing the government.