Benefits Britain episode 7 -I'm speechless!

DD is in such a state because GS2 has a cavity in a tooth when he's only two! No more breast feeding at night and cleaning his teeth after every meal. And sweets between meals are very rare now.

GillT57 I saw the programme you mentioned and felt much as you did. These are the unemployables, who will always be with us.

The reason these decisions to make recipients responsible for paying their own rent has got nothing to do with 'helping' them adjust to the world of work. It is all about saving money. It costs the government les to administer if Housing benefit is rolled into benefits payments with payment the responsibility of the recipient.

My oldest son is Autistic, and has Schizophrenia, he lives in the home of a carer and works full time in a manual job. His carer recieves an allowance and he pays his rent and food himself.
We are all very proud of him, There are opportunities out there if people want to do it, and that is the crux surely wanting to do it.
He is in the UK, the system is very,very different here.

BF feeding causes cavities??? First I've ever heard of this. Link please?

New one on me too Granjura !!

Breast milk is very sweet - I have tried it - and made Horlicks with it! Yummy!

Not sure where this fits in with benefits, but hey ho!

Mishap that goes with me akin to eating the placenta, yuck.

Well I had far too much and tried and give some to the cat- he refused, lol!

But yes, we digress.

Felice, well done your son! I am so lucky never to have been in that situation, but I think I'd much prefer to have a low paid, even 'menial' job, than none.

We have a severely autistic member of our family. Social Services put a lot of pressure on his family to move him into a flat so that he could live independently and without any help from carers. As well as autistic he is learning disabled and while physically capable would be unable to manage his life to get up, get dressed, manage personal or domestic hygiene, or cook and eat properly. Let alone pay bills or manage personal and domestic security. Social Services suggested that he could make friends with others in the block! It suggested that SS were completely ignorant of what autism means.

Fortunately his parents threatened legal action and he remains living in the supportive community he has lived in for over 10 years. There he leads a happy and productive life helping on the land the community owns and whose produce is sold to support the charity that runs it. With help he looks after himself and helps with cooking and cleaning in the house he lives in with others like himself and with helpers.

The reason SS wanted to make this change, despite his condition being far too severe for independent living, was to save money and if they could get away with it they didn't give a toss for how destructive this would be for the mentally and learning disabled victim.

Not everyone is capable of looking after their own finances and personal lives, and I have seen the results of SS pushing people into Care in the Community. Without getting into too much detail and possible identifying anyone, I had a call at work asking for help to clean the gentleman's flat. My staff had to leave; the place was disgusting, stinking of cigarette smoke, full ash trays, over flowing bins, filthy toilets and piles and piles of take away pizza boxes. This hapless soul was festering in his independence, assisted by his community care worker, and I really cannot see how this benefited him at all. This wasn't by choice, it had been foisted on him. So called independent living was for him lonely, malnourished and filthy.

The problem with breast feeding was that he was having a lot of little feeds during the night. When DD stopped the night feeds his nappies were so much drier so he was obviously getting through a lot of milk and it would all be washing around his teeth all night. It was never a problem with GS1 because he was bottle fed from 6 months and didn't have an inexhaustible supply overnight.

Gill57, in my job I see people living like your gentleman and they have the right to live like that if they want to, it has to be his choice. This is the way many people live and they have nothing to do with SS.
You just cant put that person in care because he smokes and eats takeaways.
I do market research and go into homes where there are several people all perfectly able to do housework but they just don't want to do it and no-one can make them change. I sometimes have to climb over rubbish in the hallway, old takeaway boxes etc and sit on chairs that I know are flea ridden and piled up with clutter but if that's how they live then so be it.

etheltbags there is a difference between people who choose to live in a messy house and those whose house is a tip because they are not capable of organising their lives. In the second case it is not choice and those who live like that, particularly those who have learning disabilities or mental illnesses are adversely affected by their living conditions.

Have you ever watched 'The Hoarder Next Door' with psychotherapist Stelios Kiosses? These programmes make it very clear that this kind of behaviour often arises from deep psychological trauma.

I feel very uncomfortable with the phrase 'They have the right to live like that if they want to, it has to be their choice'. It is too often used as an excuse not to help people who are desperately in need of help and whose domestic chaos is not a question of choice but a signal that they need help.

Perhaps a better view of 'independent living' Yes I know it is cheaper in the long run for our son to live in the lovely environment he now does, but for him it was a BETTER move. It was however overseen by the organisation which has cared for him for a long time, and there is still someone on duty 24 hours, but his independence is so much greater and he is really happy with it. Sorry again going 'off piste' but there is some good out there. I too despair of those people who just will not get off their back-sides and do something to help themselves.

ethelbags Do you think a person with a mental illness or a learning disability would make a conscious choice to live in a filthy hovel and eat only pizza, or is it that some people are either temporarily or permanently unable to organise their lives without a great deal of support?

To my mind much of "care in the community" hasn't been as caring as it should have been. My husband originally worked as a nurse in large institutions for people with learning disabilities. The positive side was that the residents were reasonably well clothed, well fed, generally kept safe and had companionship. The downside was that those who would, with some help, have been able to live more independent and fulfilling lives became dependent on the staff because they didn't need to acquire new skills - everything they needed was catered for.

Care in the community shouldn't mean just plonking someone down in a flat somewhere, on their own, and popping in now and again to observe and record the ensuing chaos. I think the scheme where tenants can live rent-free in exchange for some basic support of a person with a mild/moderate learning disability is a good idea. Also, small units where one or two trained staff give help to residents to acquire new skills and to deal with everyday practicalities like shopping and budgeting.

I think unfortunately that the motivation behind closing these vast institutions was not altruistic but based on economic factors. Maintaining, heating and staffing those places cost a great deal of money and there was a further incentive to close them as the land on which they stood was often very valuable. There are many examples of the land and buildings on these sites being sold to developers for large sums of money, and the buildings either demolished or re-developed for luxury flats. The community provision that followed was sometimes excellent but more often cost-cutting left people with psychiatric illnesses alone and unable to manage their medication, their finances or basic practical tasks, which led to some of them ending up on the streets.

In the latter part of my husband's career he managed day and residential units. In this area of London they were, on the whole, of excellent quality. One residential unit that I recall with particular fondness had a wonderful homely atmosphere, home cooked food, regular activities - and dances which the residents particularly enjoyed. Unfortunately, this lovely place has now been closed by the council, presumably to save money, and the provision out-sourced.

Care in the community done properly costs a load! Many years ago when this was first being planned, along with the closure of various residential facilities we, as social workers, kept saying this; and trying to point out that some people are better off in residential care. The powers that be thought they would be making savings, and so they did - by providing second class care in the community.

There is a man with bipolar disorder who has wandered the streets of our home town ever since, relying on the kindness of various shopkeepers and the cathedral staff.

I agree with you eloethen but they just cant tell people how to live their lives anymore. If someone wants to live in squalor then they have that right, remember they don't see it as squalor just that they maybe don't like housework or cooking . I know lots who don't who wouldn't call themselves mentally ill.
But it is the welfare state that has caused this because when people are on benefit/have social workers their neighbours drift away. As a child we always helped out less well off neighbours with food and clothes etc. I have said this many times that things were better before the interference of the state to the extent that it is now.

If we go far back far enough ethelbags, we had workhouses where destitute, poverty stricken people had to go - so it seems that neighbours weren't around to help then or perhaps they were in similarly awful situations themselves. Or people had to go cap in hand to charities and parish councils and be quizzed to ensure that they didn't have a single thing worth selling. These are surely just as representative of the "good old days" as those people who were able and willing to help out their neighbours.

It is still the case that some people step in and help neighbours who are in need, but to rely solely on the altruism of others to provide for all sorts of complex needs would guarantee that many people would "fall through the net" - particularly in a society where a lot of people have been convinced that the poor have only themselves to blame.

I wasn't talking about people who are lazy or indifferent to their surroundings ethel what they do or dont do in their own home is not society's business as long as nobody else is inconvenienced. What I was talking about was so called 'Care in the Community' whereby individuals are given a flat and a community worker and left to fend for themselves. If there is no family to hand, then sadly many end up malnourished and over dependant upon tobacco or alcohol and prey to all sorts of ghastly people who see them as an easy target. Neither do I believe in the halcyon old days to which you refer, do you really think it would be an improvement if welfare was left to neighbours? I believe you are at home recovering from treatment yourself, and I assume receiving sickness benefit or some sort of help, so are you honestly saying that you don't want that, you would rather have a bowl of soup and some cast off clothes from your neighbours? Really? Hope the treatment is going.

A couple of years ago the BBC, I think, did a programme where they took a variety of benefit claimants and asked them to live under the rules and with the benefits they would have got in 1948 when the welfare state came in.

The results were varied and interesting, but the relevant result for this thread was that one family; parents and three children were living in a tip with three young chaotic children. The local housing officer came round and told them that to stay in their council house they had to use the garden other than as a rubbish tip and get the inside in order. Home Helps were sent in to help them sort their lives out.

At the end of the programme the couple said how much they appreciated the help they had had because they knew their life was chaotic, it was affecting family life but they felt overwhelmed by everything and just couldn't see their way out. Having people come in to help them and guide them get on the right path was invaluable and they wished that sort of help was still available.

Gill No Im not yet on benefits, I get sick pay from my employer, although yes I may have to apply if my treatment takes longer than I expect. What I will not expect is interfering do gooders who want to come to my house to make sure I eat what they think is 'proper' food and do housework as often as 'they' say. That would be no life for me.
I know a guy who has just been released from a mental hospital, a nice person but he gets lots of benefit, he eats what he likes, usually takeaways and he drinks beer, with all the rest of his benefit he buys expensive art works, going to auctions and he buys really good stuff, displaying it on his walls with uplighters etc.This, he says is his investment for the future. He is going on an expensive holiday abroad too. So why shouldn't he spend his money as he wishes, he probably should eat a balanced meal but its up to him.
I also know a guy just had a bypass after a heart attack, Ive seen him having fry up for his main meal but again its up to him what he eats.

Gill No Im not yet on benefits, I get sick pay from my employer, although yes I may have to apply if my treatment takes longer than I expect. What I will not expect is interfering do gooders who want to come to my house to make sure I eat what they think is 'proper' food and do housework as often as 'they' say. That would be no life for me.
I know a guy who has just been released from a mental hospital, a nice person but he gets lots of benefit, he eats what he likes, usually takeaways and he drinks beer, with all the rest of his benefit he buys expensive art works, going to auctions and he buys really good stuff, displaying it on his walls with uplighters etc.This, he says is his investment for the future. He is going on an expensive holiday abroad too. So why shouldn't he spend his money as he wishes, he probably should eat a balanced meal but its up to him.
I also know a guy just had a bypass after a heart attack, Ive seen him having fry up for his main meal but again its up to him what he eats.

The point Im trying to make is that its not up to anyone to tell another adult how to live their lives, we can see advice in any magazine about what to eat or any newspaper, any day that we like.

I saw that, Flickety. It was Nick and Margaret, wasn't it?
I wonder if there will be a follow up.