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Scotland YES or NO

(998 Posts)
annodomini Mon 05-May-14 22:43:27

Here's an interesting blog by Jon Snow. He says what I have been saying - that Westminster politicians just don't understand the Scots and that the NO campaign is focusing almost entirely on negatives.

Riverwalk Mon 05-May-14 23:21:09

anno are you taking the p*ss? grin

grannyactivist Tue 06-May-14 00:24:41

Ahem, do I detect a slight hiccup in the OP's intention here? wink
blogs.channel4.com/snowblog/visceral-hatred-westminister-politics/23805

Eloethan Tue 06-May-14 00:38:52

A very good commentary by Jon Snow - though depressing.

jollyg Tue 06-May-14 09:44:56

Cant stand Snow, he is past it so I won't watch

Grandmanorm Tue 06-May-14 09:56:53

I find all this devolution stuff so sad. It worries me that it is going to cause split families as in Ireland.
I was born in Yorkshire of Scottish parents. I have lived in various countries around the world.
I have no hesitation in telling folk that "we are a small island and we should stick together" I strongly oppose devolution (in case you hadn't guessed).
However I am amazed at the number of people who are not saying what they will vote for because arguments will arise.
Of my close friends, no-one wants a separate Scotland.
Scotland isn't the only part of UK who suffers from the Westminster domination.
I am really worried about this wretched vote.
Oh I didn't read the blog by Jon Snow, sorry.
I am not good at political arguments so if this causes a bit of controversial discussion, I shall not be taking part (I know I am chicken). I have just given my opinion, and it is mine alone.
I am British/ Scottish and happy to belong to this United Kingdom.
Hope all that makes sense.

rosequartz Tue 06-May-14 10:01:08

So there are no Scottish politicians in Westmister then?

annodomini Tue 06-May-14 10:12:13

No, riverwalk, why do you ask if I'm taking the p***? And yes. rosequartz, there are, of course Scottish politicians at Westminster. One Scottish migrant is busily taking apart the English education system! Alistair Darling is full of doom and gloom about the referendum as is Gordon Brown. This downbeat message is - and I have this on good authority from relatives who are firmly in the NO camp - alienating many Scots who are swinging in the direction of a yes vote. The 'Better Together' message is in danger of simply degenerating into 'Worse Apart'. And Cameron and Osborne should keep very quiet from now on.

annodomini Tue 06-May-14 10:18:09

PS. In case anyone doubts this - I am Scottish by birth and education; however, I have lived in England for many years and my sons and grandchildren regard themselves as English, though with - variously - Irish, Welsh and African Caribbean ancestry. I am British by nationality and would prefer to remain British.

Soutra Tue 06-May-14 10:18:53

GMN this is not devolution but the BREAK UP" of the United Kingdom as we know it with massive repercussions for all of us not just those north of the Border. I have been surprised how little column space/airspace has been given to the subject . As a simple example, "losing" the Scottish MPs at Westminster would ensure future success for the Conservative party as Scotland returns I think only 1 Tory MP. It seems to be viewd as a Scottish issue in a jokey indulgent way which is so head in the sand. The rest of the UK needs to wake up to the potential consequences.

Riverwalk Tue 06-May-14 10:25:33

Anno have you clicked on your own link?

mcem Tue 06-May-14 10:28:34

Anno If you click on your link you'll see where Riverwalk is coming from! Will now read
GA's link.

Grandmanorm Tue 06-May-14 10:37:28

Soutra I agree and that is what I find so sad.

gillybob Tue 06-May-14 10:49:28

Oh dear Anno I think there might be a slight problem with your link !

Riverwalk grin

I can see exactly where you are coming from Grandmanorm chatting to some Scottish people in a pub in Seahouses (just over the border) on Saturday night it was very apparent how "nasty" it could all become. There was one man and "lady" who became almost venomous when another couple said they would be voting NO. I couldn't help but think that there was trouble brewing.

thatbags Tue 06-May-14 11:08:15

Scotland won't be part of the UK if (big if) it gets independence but it will still be part of Britain and people with a Scottish passport will still be British, as will people with UK passports.

POGS Tue 06-May-14 11:17:32

I don't think I have ever noticed this subject getting a 'jokey' indulgent attitude. Quite the contrary. Not only on GN but the press, t.v. and people I speak to are saddened by the thought the UK is within a striking distance of being broken up.

The problem is this is a decision for Scotland and the people of Scotland who are living there at this time, whether they are Scottish or not. It is not an issue for those born in Scotland but live live outside the country as they have no voting rights. They like us are having to watch their country decide but it must be very frustrating for them especially.

As for Cameron and the Conservatives he will never win. The same people who say he should speak up more, when they have the opportunity to bash him, will say the complete opposite and say he should keep out of it, just as long as they can display their dislike of the man and b----r the cause. He has made a decision to hand over the 'Yes' campaign to the likes of Darling 'because' he has the sensible approach of knowing the Conservatives have no clout in Scotland. He and Osborne have made statements when there has been a need to clarify on the financial implications, which will let's face it' concern us ALL. He is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

I am not interested in Jon Snow nor A.N.Other's point of view as that is all it is, a point of view. Facts and figures are what is required and they are either not being believed when told, or being denied as political spin and the electorate are so unsure they only have a 'gut feeling' to go on half the time. That is not good enough and it is a very dangerous situation to be in.

To say the 'better together' campaign is negative in it's message is possibly true as it has to point out what damage can be done if Scotland seperates from the rest of the UK. That is giving the truth and it is hard to swallow. Scotland knows what will happen if it does not break away, it will carry on as it is used to, hopefully.

The 'Yes' campaign on the other hand has the feel good factor because it is espousing a belief, a possibility, happy wappy land because that's all it can do. There is no hard evidence that what the SNP are saying can or will happen. There can't be, it is a hope, a desire, a wish for an unknown future that will require a leap of faith by those living in Scotland.

Alex Salmond is a charasmatic politician. He simply bashes off any negative thought, any fact that does not suit him or the SNP. Take the points raised about the £ or Scotland's membership of the EU. He won't discuss the matter he just turns round and says it is rubbish or political spin being used against the SNP.

Now you either accept his rhetoric or challenge his take on the matter. Where he is making ground is the heart over head feeling, which is gaining momentum. Is it intelligent , is it sensible, is it the way to make such a momentous decision for your future, no. It is however where we are and that is where any dangers are to be found.

I am concerned that if there is a vote to stay in the UK the Nationalist attitude has reached a bit of a fever pitch that there could be trouble for us all in the years to come. Even watching programmes such as Question Time has alarmed me no end. I have never, ever thought of any person of Scottish, Welsh, Irish or English heritage in the same way some people have, showing near hatred of the English.

Whether Scotland goes it alone or not is up to them. I just hope the reprocussion of it all does not have the worst of all consequences for the rest of us and this reasonably good willed uniting of nations implodes.

POGS Tue 06-May-14 11:24:16

That bags

I respect your take on things so I am not asking this question out of any naughtiness or stirring.

Why will Scottish passports still be British. Could they ever 'not' be British'.

I genuinely do not know the answer.

annodomini Tue 06-May-14 11:33:42

OMG. My flaming laptop played me up well and truly didn't it. Apologies everyone. Serves me right for not checking blush blush blush etc

Hopefully blogs.channel4.com/snowblog/ this is the right link.

And I am going shopping tomorrow for a new laptop. Grrrrrrrrrrr

Soutra Tue 06-May-14 12:01:54

It is not such a big IF any more thatbags if the opinion polls are to be believed, the gap is narrowing and who knows what effect the "youth" vote will have?

Lilygran Tue 06-May-14 12:30:16

Have a look at your passport. It's actually a UK passport.

Riverwalk Tue 06-May-14 12:36:59

I'm assuming that Bags means British in a geographical sense .... rather like Canadians are North Americans?

Lilygran Tue 06-May-14 13:16:08

The passport relates to a political definition.

soop Tue 06-May-14 13:29:22

bags can you suggest where I may search for my rarely-used passport? It took me to Crete 35 years ago. Haven't seen or needed it since. Just sayin'...hmm

Soutra Tue 06-May-14 13:56:27

Possibly out of date by now Soop! Careful you don't get classified as "stateless" when Salmond ascends the throne shock

thatbags Tue 06-May-14 13:58:57

pogs, for an answer to your question, look at anno's post at 10:18:09 today where she says she wants to remain British. I was just saying she will remain British, as will everyone else who is British now, even Scots who want to leave the UK.

That's all. Dead simple.