Iraq bombings

Exactly my thought thatbags

It's perhaps not the thing to say but I think of this as a scenario.

I am a prisoner of war in a Japanese camp in Burma and I see RAF bomber planes flying over, or I am in Belsen and hear bombs being dropped nearby. I think I would be saying Well, this is it for me, but thank God the world knows I am here and for the rest of my people and their survival I hope to God they get the b-----s.

On news footage, I heard members of ISIS chanting 'death to the Crusaders'

It doesn't take much effort on the part of our leaders to convince the population that invading and bombing another country, involving death and mutilation of the civilian population, is an act of mercy/heroism.

There are a couple of very informative items here The soldier and the vicar

And they think the West are devils incarnate too. I think that we've been goaded by Isis into this reaction. They knew damn well we'd respond with military action and that this would spur on their supporters to engage in more terrible acts. It will only polarise further - we can't ever elminate them. I fear that there will be an increase in fanatics going to join them from the UK and the rest of Europe, to join in what they see as a holy war. There will also be increased danger in the UK and anywhere engaged in miliary action against them - more atrocities, more innocent lives lost. It cannot come to good. I am revolted by IS as much as anyone but I cannot see a good outcome to this action

Btw - re the item are linked to - ignore the American General at the very beginning. (same old same old)

I not "are"

There will have to troops on the ground eventually. And it will probably have to, in part, be ours.

Rowantree they have to be eliminated. Or how else do you think they can be stopped from carrying out their terrible deeds?

I hope you listen, at least, to the vicar of Baghdad in that link. He is a very brave man and, being there, in the midst of it all, he knows what's what.

(I don't just mean Rowantree there btw)

If ISIS were a few miles from my village, and knowing what they are likely to do to me, my children, grandchildren and menfolk, I'd prefer to take my chance on being hit by a stray bomb than just sitting waiting for my family to be brutally massacred.

I wonder if we are being 'primed' for another war. The problem is have we got enough trained men/ women left in our armed forces to put boots on the ground if it comes to it.

We eliminated Hitler and his Nazis. This is the equivalent. It's not a case of can we, we simply must. They cannot be allowed to 'govern' a country.
I don't really believe that Isis supporters think everyone in the West is a devil incarnate, just as we don't believe everyone in the middle east is a devil incarnate. When did The West last circulate videos (or anything) showing the public beheadings of journalists? When did The West kidnap teenage girls and gang rape them?

I know The West isn't perfect but we have put barbarity like that behind us a long time ago.

History and hindsight seem to share a clarity denied to those who lead us these days. The impression of precision-guided bombs which can surgically eliminate problems has been well and truly debunked, as has the folly of trying to impose western values on alien cultures. Its all happened before, and the British were heavily involved, for better or worse. So what to do now? Well, as far as the UK is concerned, there is not a lot we can do. Like it or not we just don't have the military clout any more. So probably best to do as we are doing, and join in a multi-national effort to crack down on these criminal thugs and their atrocious conduct. What we must do, though, is demand that this foolish coalition government change its defence policy now, and start to rebuild the nation's defences which they have so wantonly slashed. We must also crack-down on extremism at home and support the police, military and the courts in taking rigorous action against offenders, especially those who come back from having committed vile crimes abroad, no matter what their so-called justification.

Apparently three suspected jihadists who have returned to France have been charged.

Papaoscar.

Sorry I just reported your post by hitting the word report by accident. I hope my message to HQ has clarified the mistake. [sorry]

I agree with some your points but unfortunately government of any colour have to deal with some ridiculous legal restraints that make it practically impossible, not least because this country has one hand tied behind it's back because we no longer make our own legislation over our security.

Interesting thatbags re France, I hope we will do the same here but we just get so bogged down by this and that group who challenge common sense and we either bow down to pressure or take years to make a decision. I am hoping Theresa May shows what she is made of.

thatbags you may be right about Hitler but the idea of another war of that kind is scary to me. Thousands upon thousands lost their lives. I have three grandsons of fighting age.

I'd prefer a cautious approach.

I just think we are sleep walking into a huge trap

Ohh, you are awful, Pogs!

Norty Pogs!

Trouble is, there are loads of modern military weapons laying about in Syria and Iraq for the taking, the Turks are reluctant to give the Kurds too much military help, yet the Kurds are the most stable of the combatants against the terrorists. Despite all the western training and new equipment the Iraqi army has proved unreliable. That dreadful expression 'mission creep' comes to mind, and I really do not want to see any more of our fine young servicemen and woman sacrificed to this mess. The role of Iran, Russia and Israel will be critical, after all those RAF bases on Cyprus are very close to Syria and its Russian bombs and rockets. Dave really shouldn't have scrapped our carriers and got rid of all those Harriers. A very false economy.

What an interesting discussion.Can I ask a question which may seem very naive....have we not made huge amounts of money selling arms ,planes etc to the Saudi's.? If countries manufacture weapons and are proud of the deals they make with dodgy regimes how Can they complain when they use them. Do we never learn from history. It is just like the middle ages in Europe but on a larger more world threatening scale.

It looks like a significant move forward has happened today with the reclaiming of an important dam where IS have been removed from it (they apparently just 'turned off the taps' so that local people had no water). At least those people will now have water again.