Iraq bombings

I felt that support for bombing was inevitable, and with a very heavy heart I (probably) come down on the side of military action.

I recently visited Krakow, learned more about the history of Poland and eastern Europe. I also visited Auschvitz, and Oscar Shindler's factory. I don't want to derail this discussion, but I do believe we have to learn from history. I accept the arguments above against bombing, and the pointers to various parts of the world where violence and murder are also happening.

I also worry that in taking military action, innocent people will die, and more martyrs will arise from their communities. I do hope that money for diplomacy will be increased. It feels so wrong to be following the US again, into killing innocents. I don't honestly know if I'd have voted for or against if I'd been an MP. I share's thatbags view, that these Isil people are the equivalent of Nazi's, and have to be stopped.

thatbags - the West might not post videos of beheadings but they have been and are guilty of atrocities and barbarity in the past, as now, in the name of a Just War or Civilisation. Off the top of my head: remember the Chilean coup, engineered by the USA, when thousands of their own citizens were tortured and killed? Remember the Vietnam war? Ireland, on both sides? Ireland's barbaric treatment of unmarried mothers? England's imperialism in the 19th century and after, invading country after country and 'subduing' and butchering the citizens? It's naive and wrong to suppose that barbarity and cruelty are something apart from the West. That is not to excuse Isis and al-Quaeda, but simply to point out that we in the west are not blameless.
This military action will not eliminate radicalisation of Muslims - quite the opposite. We might kill a few of them, but more will spring up in their place and they will be even more determined to get revenge on the West. Even Obama states it will take years - I think that's an understatement.

Iam64 I've heard this argument before somewhere - likening Isis to the Nazis. The same was said to justify the invasion of Iraq. Look where it's got us. It could have been predicted.

So should we just stand back and watch the slaughter?

Good posts Rowantree

Anya - well, it sounds callous, but in fact I think that yes, we should indeed steer clear. Western involvement is asking for further trouble. We won't get shot of Isis. They will just pop up again in another form. Don't kid yourself.
As to standing back and watching the slaughter, there will be that a-plenty with air strikes going on. Again, don't kid yourself that only the wicked will be eliminated. And that will further antagonise radical Muslims. You'll see more and more young people going off to train as 'freedom fighters' or plotting attacks in the Uk and USA, as I've said before.

It's a big mistake, to say the least.

Thank you, petallus

I wonder if those who liken the current situation to that of Hitler and the Nazis and support military action would be prepared to send their own children/grandchildren to fight? During the two world wars people did support military action, but at great personal cost - they lost sons, daughters and livelihoods in the process. I suspect that nowadays it's easier to be an armchair strategist when we know it probably won't cost us anything.

I was amused to read this:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/946206_10152747758543679_224699256550677702_n.jpg?oh=26a90ac1ca604e1c826d6dcf28d792b5&oe=54839EA9&__gda__=1422793696_102e252dad93ae7063784e1f4fe8d7a8

Ah, grannyactivist, but THIS is a Just War.....

A good letter Rowantree which says in a nutshell what a complete mess this situation is, and we are about to make it even messier.

I have the greatest respect for our armed forces and support them all the way. They are of the finest. However, I have the greatest contempt for our government who have pared our defences down to the bone yet expect our forces to continue to face danger, injury and death around the world with inadequate resources. So Iraq/Syria. We see grainy pictures of our old, tried and trusted Tornado jets firing rockets at £150,000+ a time at tiny specks in the Iraqi desert, when we are facing a vicious, widespread terrorist organisation funded by millions of dollars and with its hands on mountains of new, seized weaponry. This after the ever-corrupt Iraqi army, after years of western training and expensive re-equipment, has failed utterly and fled, leaving their nice, new weapons for the mob. So the sight of our brave fliers risking their lives in this lost cause just sickens me. The solution to all these problems must be local. It must be local troops who take on the terrorists, and our task must be to identify, encourage, support and, indeed, arm those local troops. We cannot and must not get involved again ourselves. Military tokenism will not work. We should be ring-fencing our own country and improving its defences against the world-wide proliferation of terrorism, not posturing about the world pretending we are what we are not.

we should indeed steer clear.

Even after the West was asked to help? (Which, according to the news, is what happened.)

In essence, I do agree with you which is why I tend to sit on the fence over this. It is not our fight to get involved in and arms should only be raised if they attack us directly. It is the people of that country that can change things (such as the pro-democracy protests in central Hong Kong that have brought central Hong Kong to a standstill) - it doesn't seem to have much of an effect when the West tries to force change. On the other hand, it doesn't sit well just watching innocent people being slaughtered.