You cannot be proud to be…

I think it's possible to feel proud, in the sense I described earlier, yet be humble enough about it to keep your feet on the ground. I'm talking in the sense of how the man in the Clapham omnibus talks of feeling proud these days, not from a religious or pedantic analysis of the true meaning of the word proud. It's one of those words that has evolved into common use when describing the achievements of family and friends. I wouldn't use it about being patriotic or to hold a stance that excludes others, though - just to describe those lovely feelings about how loved ones strive and cope and earn credit for trying.

I'd rather turn this on its head- and say one should never feel ashamed of anything done by generations before us- tragic anyone should feel ashamed that their grand-father was a, sa, peodophile, or Great-grand-mother a murderer, etc. Or even living relatives-

and I do get what Absent says in a way, and how nauseating some people can be about their off-springs achievements, ad nauseum (the 'Jewish' or 'Indian' mother syndrome of the perfect children) -

but as others said, I am very proud of my girls and do take just a teensy weeny bit of accolade, with OH, for how well they-ve turned out, and I am very proud of my grand-children. So there ;)

I didn't read absent's OP as anything to do with boasting, or the negative meaning of pride; rather to say that no one has any right to feel pride either in the achievements of others, or in random qualities that you have no control over. I think she is absolutely right.

I had exactly those thoughts when DS2 did very well in his second year uni exams after overcoming many difficulties. I didn't feel I had any right to take pride in his achievement; after all, he was the one who had done it, so I sent him a text saying 'you should be very proud of yourself'. What I got back was a text saying 'thanks mum, aren't you proud of me then?'. So I obviously missed the point somewhere.

I am proud to be related to three wonderful adults. I don't think I have any right to take credit for that. They are their own people.

ffinnochio
You have got me thinking now. What is the difference bewteen humility and low self-esteem?
We tend to accept that humility is a good thing, and low self-esteem is not, but can anyone define the difference?

Oh and ceesnan and jingl, of course you are perfectly entitled to think that a thread is a load of b*ll*cks, but there is no need to be quite so blunt about it, when the rest of us are enjoying the discussion. Thank you absent

janeain Perhaps it's a matter of choice? I hadn't thought of the juxtaposition of humility and low-self esteem. One can choose to be humble in life, and be content and comfortable to hold some of that - a good and strong place to be sometimes, but I don't think one would choose to have low self-esteem, which promotes unhappiness and discomfort.

Interesting musings.

* Nightowl* I agree that you have no right to take pride in your sons' achievement but I do think you can be proud of him for his acheivements.
Your DS seems to be of the same opinion.

I think of humility as being willing to learn. I never think of it as linked to self-esteem.

Thank you ginny. Yes I realised he wanted me to say I was proud of him - so I did (but maybe a bit late).

Ok janeainsworth. If you really are that tender in this day and age, (and God help you if you are!) then I will put it this way.

The original post is silly. IMO

Here is a short extract from Saira Shah's book, The Mouseproof Kitchen :

Your love for that baby shines through everything you do. I'm so proud of you for what you've done with her. You get out of babies what you put in, you know. That's what being a mother is – not getting things right all the time, not being a bloody saint.

Hands up anyone who doesn't understand that. Nota Bene, I said understand, not agree with. My point is that whether we agree or not, we understand that use of the word proud, therefore that is one of its uses in the English language. We can be proud of our offspring and of their achievements because, at least in part, they and their achievements are part of us. This pride is part of our self-respect and need not be insufferable for others to contemplate.

Well put bags.

Yes, I like that bags.

thatbags, totally agree with your view on this - as with many others.

Er - who's Lizzy Yarnold though?

Being proud to be Scottish, French or whatever is a different matter....nationalism makes me feel VERY uneasy, especially given that my father's family, like so many others, was ripped apart because of what extreme nationalism led to (and still does in many places). HOWEVER - I am very glad I live in the UK!
My children's achievements are nothing to do with me in the sense that they achieved what they did under their own steam, so to speak, but we did encourage them as best we could. We also made a lot of mistakes and I'm not too proud to admit that to them and to apologise and accept responsibility for them, even when the memory of them makes me wince!

Oh! I'm proud to be a Brit. We do things so well!

Spot on, bags and a virtual posy of spring

Another thought: when MrB first got to know DDs 1 & 2, he said he thought they were "impressive". So people who don't feel they can be proud of their offspring or of their offsprings' achievements can just be impressed instead. They don't have to tell anyone else if they are embarassed to admit being impressed by someone connected to them.

Problem solved.

Dusts hands.

I think Bags there might have meant - now shut the f--- up.

Hi jings just barging in to say...yesterday I mounted my exercise bike for the first time since "drop bot" surgery. All my muscle power has deserted me. My legs felt like jelly. After five minutes I was cream crackered. Anyways, just saying, I've made a start. Bye!

Soop - what's 'drop bot'? looks furtively at her own vast posterior and wonders if that's dropped off anywhere

A start is progress though, innit. That's got to be good

Rowantree It's my term for a rectal prolapse. Not something I would want to experience again. Surgery was up through my backside and walls of the protrusion were trimmed and stapled. I was informed that surgery might not cure the problem...it didn't...but it's less troublesome.

By the way, I admire and respect your resolve.

bags visited me in hospital. She provided a picnic. A true friend.

ffinnochio yes, I think you're right re humility/ low self esteem.
But it also seems to me that humility isn't recognised as a virtue perhaps as much as it should be, these days.
I used to get CVs from young people wanting jobs, and they had obviously been advised to 'big themselves up' for want if a better expression, when in fact a little modesty about their achievements (or lack if them usually) would have made me far more likely to take their application seriously.
Self esteem seems to be an end in itself these days, which seems sad to me

agree janeainsworth. I'm also a bit grumpy about the use of low self esteem as an excuse for bad behaviour, but that's probably another thread init. I am proud of being part of a loving family. We all work at it, as we're fortunate enough to know, that relationships don't appear out of the ether