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dirty old men

(135 Posts)
etheltbags1 Fri 21-Aug-15 21:32:06

Am I being unreasonable to expect men aged 80+ to be polite, and reasonably behaved. I would have thought men of that age would have learned how to behave.
I joined an art and craft class where members are all over 60, one character is aged 88 and a sex pest, he only targets me the youngest and touches my leg regularly, makes innuendoes and last week he thrust his pelvis several times into my side as I sat, if I had turned my head he would have been in my face. He had an object in his trousers, I think a tea towel or suchlike to make an enormous bulk and he asked me if that was enough. I tried to ignore him but hes just a pest. I have been advised to hit him, threaten him, throw water over him or really insult him. I don't know what to do .This is a self organised group and we do not have a leader.
I really thought that in this day and age sexual harassment was over, no more disgusting wolf whistles as I pass a building site, no more remarks like 'get yer tits oot' as I walk past a group of men, no more being groped or have remarks like, 'can I feel your buns hinny' etc etc and best of all no more groping. However it seems that men just cant help themselves, so shall I hit him, insult him or say something demeaning.

Luckygirl Sun 23-Aug-15 11:21:27

When my poor dad started to lose the plot after several fractures and surgery, he did make sexual advances to his carer. It was very sad as the "real" Dad would have been mortified.

Sugarpufffairy Sun 23-Aug-15 11:43:29

I feel sorry for Ethelbags having to put up with this carry on. Some men dont get how to behave round women. I lost my husband and a few months later my dad died. I had lost the 2 most important men to me. In the following months I was diagnosed with various illnesses one of which was the same as a female neighbour. We discussed our bones problems a few times and this was even discussed in the presence of her husband. I had to shift some heavy furniture and this woman said her husband would help me. He came to my house and made an improper suggestion! This was shocking for me. He was a married man living a few doors away with his wife. How anyone would want to touch my body with all these illnesses was beyond my understanding. Then I suddenly thought that maybe the wife was in on it. This all scared me so much that I moved from my flat to my late parents' house and heavens above did another married man not start on me there! I have no idea why anyone would want to touch me I am over 60 and registered disabled.
It is not just what is said to a female of our age group it is the shock that men have still not learned how to conduct themselves. There is shock and sometimes terror. I reported the first incident to the Police who said it was my word against his. I made the report in writing so there is evidence that I am being pestered. Everytime I go back to my flat this stupid man watches me. One day I will lose the plot and forget I am a grandmother of 5 and deal with a sleazy man as we did way back in the 60s and 70s. We should not be having to deal with such rubbish now and the police should not allow it to happen.
I am disgusted with the item about a male patient in a care home raping a female patient. That should never have been allowed to happen. It seems to me that women are no safer now than they were years ago. There is a local incident of a nurse being raped and murdered. The man is caught and a previous incident come to light. Police and courts are not taking action on the previous case. What message is that sending out to men of that persuasion.

Blue22 Sun 23-Aug-15 12:38:40

Very loudly , very clearly , in his face SOD OFF YOU DIRTY OLD MAN.

reenee Sun 23-Aug-15 12:45:58

I would take a small water pistol with me and if he tries it on again, squirt him in the groin and then state loudly that he must have wet himself, poor dear!

merlotgran Sun 23-Aug-15 12:47:49

Brain damage, whether from an accident, dementia or a stroke can cause loss of inhibition He's 88 and obviously can no longer restrain himself. He may have always been a bit of a sex pest but who knows what state his mind is in now?

A nuisance who may have to be firmly put in his place but not the end of the world.

merlotgran Sun 23-Aug-15 12:48:39

And what would that achieve, reenee?

reenee Sun 23-Aug-15 12:54:20

Take a small water pistol and next time squirt him in the groin, point and say " Oh you've wet yourself, poor dear!" as loudly as possible.

whenim64 Sun 23-Aug-15 12:58:20

Sensible words, Merlot A joint effort from the members to support ethel and ensure his nearest and dearest are aware that this needs managing without turning it into a vendetta. His GP may need to be informed by his family. Sex pests of any age needs standing up to and if it can't be managed he might have to stop attending the classes.

vampirequeen Sun 23-Aug-15 12:58:48

I like the Joyce Grenville suggestion best. Lovely way to put him down lol.

HildaW Sun 23-Aug-15 13:00:40

Always best to remain aloof and dignified in these circumstances or he could turn it around and make you the aggressor. Talk to the rest of the group...even if its just one person, to gauge their feelings and then use the raised voice and walk briskly away. These types...sexual deviants.....get their jollies from goading a response from you...the more rattled and shocked you are...they more they like it.

grabba Sun 23-Aug-15 13:42:04

I am shocked that anyone would think this is anything other than assault.

Change the scenario to a young woman being harassed like this?

Would anyone find that acceptable? From the other comments it seems it wouldn't be acceptable if it was a 40 plus man who was harassing a 20 year old woman. Why is this different?

I would advise you contact any local service who offers help and advice to people who are targeted in this way.

He is invading your space and it sounds like the others in your group are colluding with him allowing this behaviour to carry on.

What ever the reason behind it you are entitled to enjoy your activity without interference.

Please don't feel you have to put up with this, it is unacceptable behaviour

bikergran Sun 23-Aug-15 13:56:34

I would certainly not put up with this behavior..and yes if he does have dementia!! he hasn't got it that much as he! if he is still astute enough to put stuff down in his trousers to make him "bulky"!! sounds like he is well aware of what he is doing to me.why does he not target everyone if he has dementia, surely he would be saying it to all, but he has picked you out, he needs telling and the "loud voice" sounds like the best idea at the mo, although if your friends in the class are aware of you "tormentor" then you need to speak to the also, other than that If nothing else is done about it I would be having a word with the police,there is no need to put up with it, what if he targets others.
Hope you get it sorted and soon.

grabba Sun 23-Aug-15 14:04:23

bikergran I agree. This behaviour is unacceptable. If he is targeting someone in a closed environment where he knows he could be challenged I would be concerned he is also doing this elsewhere.

You could check with the local police, he may be known to them

Jomarie Sun 23-Aug-15 22:39:17

I think Hilda's suggestion is possibly the best one here. Joyce Grenville voice (can you do that?) will work a treat. Might, of course, have the opposite effect but then you just screech "help" at the top of your voice and let the others come to your rescue - seems they might be enjoying your discomfort a bit too much. So time to call time as they say. Good luck flowers

Nelliemoser Sun 23-Aug-15 23:17:37

Just tell him, loudly enough for others to hear, to leave you alone and keep his hands and any other parts of his anatomy to himself.

Elrel Mon 24-Aug-15 02:22:01

How about a big loud 'NO!' That's what I did automatically, without thinking, when a fellow volunteer (with mild learning disability) at a charity shop came up behind me and put his hands on my neck. He didn't try it again and we now have normal friendly chats when we meet.
The class surely has a conveyor or leader to whom you could complain. A threat from them to exclude him if he doesn't stop may solve the problem. Of course if his harassment is a symptom of dementia it's a different matter.

ooonana Mon 24-Aug-15 03:04:41

He's attention seeking, so completely ignore him. Sit somewhere else.

Sillyoldbird Mon 24-Aug-15 07:42:00

If he's seemingly rational and coherent as EthelTbags says, I would be inclined to ask another person at the group to accompany me and have a word with him in private. Then ask him to explain why he felt able to do this and tell him it must stop immediately. I would also say that any further incidents would be reported - to his family/friends/the police (if appropriate ).

I have been in contact with dementia patients who have shown sexually inappropriate behaviour many times (when my father was in residential care) and usually by the time this behaviour starts their illness is quite advanced and obvious to others. I suspect this man just can't control himself and has been getting away with it for a long time, perhaps due to his age. Asking him to account for his behaviour and telling him of the potential consequences in reasonable, but firm way might just convince him you're serious.

I hope you get it sorted Etheltbags.

Eloethan Mon 24-Aug-15 12:30:32

ooonana Would you tell a young woman who was being touched up by a man and experiencing all sorts of unwanted physical attention and unpleasant sexual innuendo to "ignore it"?

Sugarpufffairy Mon 24-Aug-15 19:17:23

Surely the most important thing is that a woman can go to any event and be safe from men taking advantage. No matter what the cause of the man;s conduct a woman should be safe. Report it to Social Services as a vulnerable adult who is being sexually abused in an art class.
There is no excuse!

Anya Mon 24-Aug-15 19:49:26

Attention seeking ooonana ? That's not attention seeking, it's sexual harassment and not to be tolerated.

Annamika Tue 25-Aug-15 11:37:22

I would not spill coffee on him or physically hurt him because (although harsh) you could be done for assault. I agree with another comment about throwing water over him though. If you are happy to raise your voice to him then do that otherwise if you can ask a strong member to speak to him on your behalf then that is also fine. If none of these work then threaten to go to the police/authorities.

Good luck.

EhUp Tue 25-Aug-15 11:54:02

You could film him on your mobile, then take the evidence to the Police.

FarNorth Tue 25-Aug-15 12:05:44

Don't wait for him to try it on again.
At the next class speak to him straight away and tell him you are fed up of his silly juvenile behaviour and to stay away from you.
He will probably claim not to know what you mean. Say "Fine, as long as you stay away from me."

FarNorth Tue 25-Aug-15 12:06:47

Ps, say it quite loudly so others hear you.