Gransnet forums


AIBU to ask if you are aware of the petition on gender identity and women's rights?

(117 Posts)
NoSquirrels Thu 15-Mar-18 19:10:57

I apologise if this is in the wrong place, or already being discussed here - I have come on over from Mumsnet as I want to make sure we're spreading the word on an important petition on consulting women on changes to the law that could impact on single-sex spaces and organisations.

From the petition wording:

The government proposes to amend the law to allow people to self-identify as men or women, and to stop allowing organisations in sensitive situations to exclude people of the opposite birth sex. We call for women to be consulted on how to protect women and girls' rights, safety, privacy and dignity.

Currently, in order to be recognised legally as the opposite gender from your birth sex (e.g. a man transitioning to live as a woman, or vice versa), trans people can obtain a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC) once they have lived as that gender for 2 years or longer, and have 2 medical opinions in their favour.

The proposals that are being discussed will allow people to "self-certify", so that the only requirement to obtain a GRC will be to fill in a form.

The lobby to allow this centres on it being a demeaning process for trans people, and medicalising their condition. Allowing someone to self-certify their own gender would alleviate distress for the small percentage of the population affected, they argue.

Women's groups feel they are being silenced for even discussing the issues that this could lead to in the future, such as elimination of safe spaces for women in all their forms. There is a vocal minority of trans-activists who are insisting on #nodebate and calling anyone who discusses it transphobic and bigoted. Yet it directly affects women's rights as it removes biological sex from the equation.

The media and politicians are both shy of discussing this issue. For instance, when Jenni Murray of Woman's Hour suggested that whilst trans people should be respected in their chosen genders they ought not to call themselves "real" women/men there was a huge backlash against her:

This is a great article that explains the issues dispassionately:

If once you've had a read of the current position you felt inclined to sign the petition asking for a respectful debate on gender and women's rights, the petition link is:

SmorfOrTerf Thu 15-Mar-18 22:12:09

My DH is involved in Women's sports.
I asked what would happen in men turned up and said they identified as women but kept their beard and penis

Then he signed

Cherrytree59 Thu 15-Mar-18 22:13:05


hildajenniJ Thu 15-Mar-18 22:17:14


gillybob Thu 15-Mar-18 22:21:03

Yes me too. Signed.

themoll Thu 15-Mar-18 22:34:08

Feel strongly about this. Signed. Good luck.

SueDonim Thu 15-Mar-18 22:58:29

I have signed previously! I'm glad to see this petition being more widely disseminated.

NoSquirrels Thu 15-Mar-18 23:10:52

My DH is involved in Women's sports.
I asked what would happen in men turned up and said they identified as women

It's already happening in sports.

Depressing, given that on one hand we laud films like Battle of the Sexes (Billie Jean King's story) but on the other in the arena of non-competitive sport, Swim England has issued guidance that:

^Some swimmers who were born female but now identify
differently may wear what is called a ‘binder’ – this is a
tight piece of material that is wrapped around the top half
of the body in order to compress breasts to conceal them
behind clothing. This is perfectly safe to swim in, and
should be encouraged.^

^Some swimmers may have a preference to wear less
clothing than usually expected. For example, some
swimmers may not want to wear anything on their top half,
so as to identify with their new gender, but if they have
not had top surgery this means that this person’s breasts
will be clearly visible. This needs to be talked about and an
amicable solution found. This may be appropriate to allow
during a trans specific session, but if a trans swimmer is
attending any other session in the timetable, then they
should be appropriately covered up – you wouldn’t allow a
woman to swim topless in a public session, and you need
to treat everyone the same.^

FtM trans are "encouraged" to cover up their breasts, and "not appropriately covered" if presenting as their new gender with no accommodation to how a "woman" might swim in a public session.

The double standards are rife. In professional sports it is a hot topic, and controversial.

SmorfOrTerf Fri 16-Mar-18 00:32:43


This needs to be brought to the attention of the FA

funnily enough they are available to discuss

Should England go to the World Cup


What should happen to Jamie Carrigher

But what should we do with a girl with a penis ?

These threads need tweeting

POGS Fri 16-Mar-18 09:44:44

I can't sign , why?

I enter my name, email, post code and it displays a full screen showing my details and a green square 'continue'.

Every time I hit the 'continue' box it keeps displaying my details and does not advance forward.

Anybody else having a problem? Am I doing something wrong?

NoSquirrels Fri 16-Mar-18 09:51:37

If you have grandchildren who are in Girl Guiding - or daughters who used to be, and know how much it can give to young girls, you may be interested in this thread too, from a concerned Guide Leader:

NoSquirrels Fri 16-Mar-18 09:52:55

POGS once you've registered it sends you a link to your email - it may have gone to spam, so do check that folder - and once you have clicked on that it will let you sign. It's to stop people signing twice, I guess.

POGS Fri 16-Mar-18 10:14:46


Nothing in my e.mail box as yet!

I think that could be a reason why the signature number is low, people give up or can't sign?

I will however keep a look out. Thanks.

NoSquirrels Fri 16-Mar-18 10:41:15

Oh dear! Mine came through straight away. Worth trying again later, perhaps?

Rubyredshoes Fri 16-Mar-18 10:43:31


NoSquirrels Fri 16-Mar-18 10:53:19

I think that could be a reason why the signature number is low

It is frustratingly low at the moment but I have faith that it will gain momentum if it is covered by the media even a little, and women share amongst themselves.

It's worth noting that it's only a few days old, so whilst it's low in terms of the 33 million women in the country, it's not doing too badly for a petition that hasn't been noticed much more widely than Mumsnet and now Gransnet.

POGS Fri 16-Mar-18 11:10:35


I must admit I did not notice it said "We will e.mal you" . I think I expected a ' submit ' facility at the time of entering my details.

Not a usual candidate for signing petitions so maybe I am not offay with how it works.

However nothing has been sent yet so I am maybe being a tad impatient! Cheers.

silverlining48 Fri 16-Mar-18 12:01:19

Signed . I had to go back into my email where there was a message waiting which I clicked on. Job done.

Wheniwasyourage Fri 16-Mar-18 15:05:09

Signed and I'll mention it to friends & family.

The swimming pool changing room problem should not be an issue here as our pool has a unisex changing area. It makes family swimming much easier as either parent, or both, can be involved in helping with children of either sex. As all changing is done in cubicles, and showers have to be taken with swimwear on, there are no nude bodies to be seen and so which bits anyone could wave about, should they wish to, is irrelevant. Perhaps that might be a way forward if this gets any worse. I certainly hate the idea of DGDs being flashed in what should be a safe place by someone who "says" he's a woman. angry

Grannybags Fri 16-Mar-18 15:05:42

Signed. Something I feel very strongly about.

Wheniwasyourage Fri 16-Mar-18 15:06:37

Sorry, forgot to say - Thank you NoSquirrels, for bringing this to us; you've obviously hit a good seam of supporters!

Bookatbedtime Fri 16-Mar-18 15:29:37


TerriBull Fri 16-Mar-18 15:53:06

Yes I have signed the petition NoSquirrels and have been following some of the arguments over on MN. I think it's a very important matter with enormous ramifications for the female sex. I find some of the issues being mooted at the moment so bizarre it's as if we have entered a parallel universe. Good luck with the petition I do hope you reach the required amount of signatures so this matter can be debated in Parliament.

harrigran Fri 16-Mar-18 16:01:33


Primrose65 Fri 16-Mar-18 16:19:13



Check your junk mail perhaps? The email arrived in an instant for me. Did you get to the 'one more step' screen, after the screen where you enter your details?

5.300 now

Blinko Fri 16-Mar-18 16:57:56

I wrote to my MP a while ago about this, expressing my concern. I received a fob off letter. Pat McFadden, Labour Wolverhampton East.