To be very annoyed at this ungrateful child?

Sorry. and/or DGS

My autistic adult son has no idea about manners. He only has a couple of words that are understandable to strangers (mummy & daddy). He will sign thank you when told to. I don’t think he opened a present until he was about 10. He still doesn’t really understand the concept of them though.

Autism covers a wide range of issues with a wide degree in how people are affected. My son requires 24 hour 2:1 care. Many live independently, get married and have jobs. Not understanding social expectations is common enough as is getting overwhelmed by unusual events.

I don’t think this child’s behaviour was that unusual for a 4 year old. Not enough to diagnose him with anything - he may be a bit spectrummy or just a bit immature. Have met plenty of typically developing kids of that age with no filter. They just need to be corrected. No big deal.

And I would have done the same as a PP - said ‘that’s a shame we love it’ and if appropriate opened it to play with it (not at a party, but if it was just a visit).

Can I just say that I felt that way about a friend of my DS's when he was a little boy. I was horrified at the way he talked to his parents and I did point out to my son that I wouldn't accept him talking to me that way. This was 13 years ago and at the age of 17, he is the loveliest boy. My DS had another friend who wasn't used to getting the word 'no,' for an answer so he was a bit surprised when he didn't get his own way around here and would often open my drawers to get new batteries or sweets when he thought I should have said yes. Once again, he has turned out to be a really nice, sociable boy who knows how to act in other people's houses. We all have different ways of parenting and you can't just leap to the the judgement that what others do will turn out badly.

Cherrytree59 I wish there was a like button for your comments ,sometimes I feel like I come from a different planet to a lot of the grans on here...and I am very glad none of them are my kids family

Paddyann thank you.
I almost said on my last post that I thought I was living in a parallel universe or had gone back in time 50 years or more!

I am also glad they are not part of my family.

paddyann and. Cherrytree59, May I join you? I’m horrified by some of the Victorian attitudes here.

What a load of bollocks from some!

A four year old is more than capable of learning good manners and if a gran does not have the confidence or wherewithal to point out to him what is a acceptable behaviour and what is not then he’s going to have a rude awakening when he starts school very soon. There is absolutely no evidence that this child has ASD but even if he has then there are ways to deal with unacceptable behaviour which will benefit his future behaviour.

There’s an increasing feeling of entitlement among certain younger people. Luckily just a few. Not to be confused with those who think they can achieve if they make the effort, but those who think they are entitled without that effort. This is all part and parcel of the same attitude being fostered by over indulgent parenting (or grand parenting).

When I see in the news what some poor children around the world have to suffer on a daily basis and then I read some of the guff written in this thread....

I agree with your second paragraph OldMeg. Even if the child had autism (and I mean the high functioning type) he should have been reprimanded for his behaviour by his DG.My autistic grandson keeps telling me I am too strict but I have to live with that .

Old Meg.......bollocks? Guff?
It’s plain that you have never managed a difficult child with problems.
No, we don’t know why the child is reacting in this way and if he has diagnosed or undiagnosed autism, but it is not ‘normal’ behaviour.Opening presents should be a pleasurable thing to do, but children on the autistic spectrum find it stressful.It wasn’t an expected thing to happen,there could be anything inside it!
Telling off a small child with problems is making the whole present opening experience even worse and the next time he gets one he will remember what happened before.
My DGS regularly said he would put things in the bin if he didn’t want something we had bought.The next week we would find him happily playing with it.
I never judge children, especially young ones, there are so many reasons for ‘bad’ behaviour.

We look after our 2 and a half year old granddaughter and she is being taught by both her parents and us that it is polite to say thank you for presents or when someone gives them something. She even says excuse me rather than interrupting but that is my DD insisting on good manners as she like us think that is important. My son in law is getting on board but for some families manners don't seem to be something they teach their children. We think it should start from when they start talking.

I think I would have said something to the little boy immediately so your GS knew that this was not a nice way to accept a present. I would just have said you should say thank you for presents. As you don't like the present we will just take it over here and play with it with your GS. Chances are he would change his mind as maybe his family don't play with puzzles with him. Kids need immediate correction and if your friend did not step in then I would. Your friend should have said something as the adult in charge but as I said some families don't seem to think good manners are important.

Bollocks guff? I thought I had strayed over to mumsnet!

No child will learn good manners by being treated and judged harshly. Example is all.

Think to the future with dread.
They're forging friendship at four, look ahead to when they're fourteen and this little brat is influencing your lad in to big trouble.
End it now.

Wow, so judgemental and leaping to conclusions.

Anyone starting a comment with "What a load of bollocks" would probably struggle to teach manners!

well spotted mcem

Then you’d be wrong lemongrass very wrong. I’m guessing from your reaction that you are close to a child with ASD. Yes, these children certainly do find reactions and interactions very difficult and can be harshly judged fir their behaviour by others.

But it’s doing a disservice to put the simply badly behaved into the same category. There is no indication from the OP that this other child doesn’t interact as any other 4-year old when playing with the OP’s grandson, is there? I didn’t read that into her post.

It was all about the way he firstly treated and spoke to his grandmother and how he reacted to the present

And for all those who think in black and white, there are ways to deal with children that don’t resort to harshness. How quick some of you are to rush to judgement when someone suggests the teaching manners can only be done harshly. Suggesting that a child is taught manners is not some rush to Victorian discipline, there are ways and means.

And mcem you are so funny!

You don’t need to guess Old Meg as I have stated it (dgs with autism) I have merely pointed out that for many children the same, the reaction to a present would be the same as experienced by the OP.This was to give food for thought, about the reactions of an unknown small child.
I also said ( in my last post above) that it may not be the case either, there could be other reasons, we don’t know.
We do know though, it isn’t normal behaviour so therefore
Leaping in with ‘what a brat’ attitude, about an unknown
four year old is unreasonable(to put it mildly).

Sorry I don't find dogmatic attitudes and rudeness funny!
However if it amuses you...........

As I said previously to call a child horrid or a brat on a tiny snapshot is in my opinion awful and judgemental No child’s born rude and ungrateful usually something has happened to cause the anger and before writing him off look to see if there is a problem

I never said ‘what a brat’ did I? So those who think I did need to look again.

And where did I say anything ‘dogmatic’ mcen I think you will find I use the words ‘some’ and ‘certain younger people’ which is actually the opposite. Your post reminded me of a little Jack Russell I know, snappy and ready to bite at the least provocation that’s what was amusing.

There are two opposite poles of opinions on here. Those who think the child isn’t to blame and those who think him a ‘brat’.

What I’ve bern saying all along is that the child will never learn manners if he is not shown that his behaviour is not acceptable. And there are ways of doing that which are appropriate for his age and personality and, if need be, take account of any behavioural issues he might be exhibiting.

For instance had I said to GS1 at that age ‘how rude!’ that would have been enough to pull him up and make him think. And I’d have then explained to him how upsetting his behaviour was and asked him to apologise. Taking the same tactic with GS2 might not have been as effective and, when he did something very similar, I requisitioned the gift for myself. These are only examples and possibly not very good ones at that!

If it was my rather sensitive GD (who actually wouldn’t have done that) I’d have taken an entirely different approach.

So the point is, manners do matter, but there are ways of teaching them dependent on the child. Simply ignoring bad behaviour is often condoning it, unless there is a very good reason for doing so (and sometimes there are).

I do think that some grandparents can be more permissive and even defensive with their grandchildren than they would have even with their own children.
Personally, if nobody else is looking, I am not above fixing a naughty child with a Paddington style hard look if he is not behaving well around little DGS as happened at a play centre recently when I was on Granny duty in Stratford!
(And the child was truly off the wall, even his mum hoiked him out and threatened to take him home!)

Maw ?soft play centres are a jungle aren’t they? I keep an eye firmly on the younger DGC when in them, as it’s common for small ones to be barged over and trampled, shoved out of the way etc.
All a learning curve for them and a soft landing at least, but they still need a wee bit of supervision.

you dont go from being 3 to being four in a huge jump its one day at a time so a three year old who is without doubt too babyish for school wont change instantly to a mature 4 year old just because the calendar says he's 4 .Children all mature at different rates my 4 yr old D was a very grown up girl and happy to go out into the world ,my 4 year old son clung and screamed if we tried to leave him.Both were raised the same way,yes both were well mannered at 4 but there were other differences in their development ,maybe because DS was very prem and took along time to catch up both physically and emotionally .So I would never call a child names..I have no idea whats gone on a wee life to upset them or even just make them tired and out of sorts.I'm quite shocked at the reaction of many on here ,I think although we're all grans we must be diferent generations though even my mother or grandmother wouldn't have called any little one a brat .