To be very annoyed at this ungrateful child?

It’s not doing the child any favours by not giving him boundaries and learning manners and acceptable behaviour. He will find it so hard to conform at school etc Very poor parenting ...

Minimo, How come neither of you grandmothers said anything at the time? You know - take responsibility?

Seems to me both of you copped out and as such did the poor little chap a great disservice. He isn't going to learn with nobody showing him the way.

I hate this about my fellow GN's posts: situations of silent collusion by saying/doing nothing. And most of the replies to the posts concurring 'do/say nothing'!

- Isn't this precisely what our children's generation have against us? Not taking responsibility.

What a horrible little brat!
Many years ago when my eldest son was about 5 we bought a Christmas present for the little boy next door, aged 6. When DS and I called round to deliver it the boy snatched it from my son's hands without any word of thanks, ripped off the paper and threw the toy across the room shouting "I don't want that, I've already got it!" My startled son backed away, the boy's mother looked embarrassed but said nothing. I was absolutely incensed!! I grabbed the boys arm, marched him across the room and told him to "Pick it up!" He did. I took it off him and said "You don't deserve to have presents. You're a very rude little boy and it's time you learned some manners." His mother still said nothing. I then grabbed my son and we left. As I reached the front gate I could hear him screaming "She took my present!" The following day the mother came to apologise (alone), I told her not to bother as it was her son who should be apologising, not her. Neighbourly relations were cool for a while. Her son remained a rude, bad tempered child and got into lots of trouble at school. My children and hers didn't really mix much. A few years later she told me she found him difficult to control and didn't really like being alone in the house with him. He was only 10 years old then and she was afraid of him! They moved away soon after that and I often wondered what became of them.

Exactly what BlueBelle says.
My DGS now a teenager, would have reacted to an unexpected present ( at age 4/5/6) from a stranger ( sometimes even with a family member) in the same way.
He has autism.
Sometimes he refused to open presents at all, and when he did, he ripped the paper off and threw the presents aside.
That side of things improved with age, and now he opens presents, smiles, and says thank you.
When young, that would have been impossible for him.
He also sometimes shouted at me when out and about and had rages.He drew many dark looks and tut tutting from adults around.

So, you never know, and even if you ask your new friend about it, she may not know, or something may be undiagnosed as yet.Give the little boy the benefit of the doubt.

Yes, even children with autism need boundaries, but much of their behaviour is beyond their control, particularly when so little.
Up to then, I would have been giving dark looks to children having meltdowns in public, but not any more!

Reminds me of the time my elder GS brought a present back from a school trip for his younger brother and the younger brother poo-pooed it. The elder one was upset so I asked if I could have it instead, at which point the younger one decided he’d quite like to have it.

Too late! Said I and despite the resulting tantrum I have that little silver dragon on my dressing table still.

That learned him!

he's 4,you have no idea what type of 4 he is ,many are still babies at that age .Maybe his granny could have helped him open the gift and say thanks ,maybe he's just at the stage where he wants to be independant and do things HIS way.Not all children behave in the same way ..not all children behave the same on every day.There may well have been a reason for his reaction ..I would NEVER judge a 4 year old ..or a five or 6 year old for that matter .I would judge the reaction of the adult whose care he was in .This one didn't seem to have a clue about how to handle him .Blame the adults in the childs life ..he's on a steep learning curve without their input.I'm sure he'll do just fine when he has some guidance..

Paddyann is absolutely right in my view. I am shocked at the harshness shown towards the child on this thread. No child of 4 is a horrible little brat. Show some understanding. Harsh condemnation will not help. It will make him more difficult. Kind guidance is what he needs.

I have a gd just 17 . She goes to college but has got in with a lad through a friend who is what we term as a 'waster'.hes 19 almost 20 . No job .He Lives at a ymca hostel and shes started missing college to hang around with him . Shes staying over with him and talks of wanting to get pregnant. She has slight autistic traits with obsessive behaviour and my daughter is beside herself trying to make her see reason. She was doing so well at college but now just wants to be with him. She was always difficult and hated being told what to do but is a sweet girl. We want to help but cant.

I am shocked and saddened by some of the harsh words used against a small child who is only 4years old DGS.
It is up to adults to show by example.
This child may have several under lying problems.
He may or may not have autism but that will only be established through time.
Until a firm diagnosis has been reached the other grandparent could not use as an explanation.
Anything that is out of an autistic child's routine will cause a melt down.

As a grandparent I would not inform another grandparent or anybody else that the child in my care is autistic.
That is for the parents to do if they so wish.

If the child has problems at home, then it will probably come out in his behavior.

It is very sad that the OP and her DGS had such an unfortunate reaction to what should have been a nice present giving and receiving, and I do sympathise.

But to the grandparent's who think it is OK to use such words against a four year old child I'm shocked and saddened

I'm a stickler for politeness, both socially and at home!

However, I don't think there is any rule saying that a gift may only be kept if accepted gratefully! For years I sent presents to a niece and nephew who rarely acknowledged them. I kept sending them because they are family and I wanted to. The child in the OPs post was very rude, but is only four and the 'responsible adults' could/should have taken control and explained things to both the giver and recipient. I hope someone in his life will do this, soon!

Several posters think that autism may have contributed to the child's behaviour. I don't have any experience of autism, but I would genuinely be interested to know if the unpleasant behaviour demonstrated by this child could be a direct result of his condition. Does it follow that an autistic child is automatically ill mannered?

I read this with amusement as I work with this age group and ofstead are asking us to promote 'British values'. Ie. good manners and role model behaviour. It's obvious that this child needs a few lessons and his Gran isn't doing him any favours!!!

An autistic child is not automatically ill mannered.My DGS is now 10.He has his moments but is generally extra polite as he adopts adult language and behaviour.He is a sensitive and anxious child and is aware of the feelings of others.Some autistic children may behave badly of course but I wouldn't call it ill mannered which suggests they know how to behave but choose not to.

I was going to say that people who have made their minds up about a 4 year old total stranger need to step back a bit and not be so quick to judge! But I see others have now brought this to the table.

I used to be quick to judge but since the arrival of a much loved grandson who is undergoing tests for autism and who has epilepsy and learning difficulties and who behaves similarly to this little lad I am much more tolerant. I have to ignore some of his tantrums and rudeness along with the tut tutting of people who think he is just being naughty and not brought up correctly! I don’t explain, why should I? We are getting professional help. It’s a constant worry.

So I would say all you people who have set opinions because your child would never behave like this - just be extremely grateful. What do they say about walking in other peoples shoes?

Food for thought ? maybe?

Oh but not reason you should continue going round OP if he upsets you so much or you feel your child may copy his behaviour.

Bluegal totally agree
Re walking in other peoples shoes
No bad manners is not necessarily an autistic trait.
But having a Meltdown when a routine altered or when expectations are challenged is.

I remember getting quite upset when my Son had a tantrum in a local supermarket a and I told him off.
I subsequently learnt that he was prone to tantrums if he had E numbers in his food or drink.
I had given my son the E Numbers which
had resulted in his behaviour!
I had told my little boy off for something that was MY fault not his.
This is something I will never forgive myself.

I would just keep well clear of them. I feel sorry for the grandma with a brat as a grandchild, but I wouldn’t subject myself or my own grandchild to such ignorance. He/she will encounter that behaviour at school no doubt and have to learn to deal with it, but YOUR time with your grandchild should not be spoilt, these times are so,precious. It’s unfortunate if you like the woman but I’m afraid I’d stay well clear in future or eventually I’d blow up!

As I said Harsh words!
Thecatgrandma
You know that the child is a brat ??

Autism is a whole spectrum Antonia and causes all kinds of behaviour, it often means that the situation ( whatever it is) makes the child so anxious that they can’t deal with it.
Birthdays and Christmas can be awful for them, changed routines and so on.They don’t set out to be ill mannered but can’t cope as a neurotypical child would do.They are also not good at reading faces or understanding social niceties.

The boy mentioned in the OP may have other problems,
But it’s never a good idea to wade in and judge so young a child.Whenever you come across a screaming child having a tantrum, it may be more than a tantrum, ditto appearing rude.
Even if the case is that the child is simply never disciplined,
It is not the fault of the child.

I wonder if he is unhappy being looked after by his grandmother. I knew a little boy who was sent to live with his great! grandmother when his mother remarried. He was an absolute monster. screaming and spitting at people and the poor old lady was quite unable to cope with him. Eventually he went back to his mother and was transformed into a perfectly nice little boy.

My autistic GS does tend to be awfully blunt with some of his comments. If a present looks like something he won't really want or a duplicate of something we have learnt to jump in with lots of positive comments (and perhaps a quick kick under the table!)

That is very rude of that little boy especially to say that he would throw it in the bin. He hasn't been taught basic manners and already has signs of self importance. I remember when my son was about three I had to train him on how to show that he liked the present and was happy with it. We wrapped a number of gifts up and then he gave me one, I opened it, looked happy and said thank you. Then it was his turn, he opened the box, looked happy at what he saw (nothing) and said a big thank you. Simple. It was a fun training session, he was great after that as he knew what to do so as not to hurt anyone's feelings.

If only it were so easy moonbeames!

minimo if you like the gran then keep meeting up, if it becomes too stressful for either you or your DGC then you will have to stop meeting.

lemon I agree if it is too stressful then the OP and/or should not meet up.

I glad that a least a few Grans on GN have compassion towards a small child who has only been on this planet for little over 48 months.
And who will have learnt most of his manners or lack of them from adults!