substance and alcohol abuse

icanhand, my daughter could have gone into rehab sooner if the psychiatric unit she had been treated in several times for mental health illness would recommend her need for treatment, they couldn't do this, they hadn't treated her for alcohol dependancy , they didn't treat anyone with alcohol problems , the fact she was admitted because she had cut her wrists trying not to drink seems to have skipped their minds. After ten years of dealing with "experts" I have little faith in them.

Alcohol addiction is such a sad affliction, and I can't see that increasing the price will do anything to curb people's drinking. IMO all that will do is make life even more difficult for families who cannot afford the extra outlay on the already expensive alcohol.No doubt many of us wish we knew the answer to the problem , but moral fibre??? Tosh.

I believe that living with an alcoholic is far more revealing than working with one or more

Agree absolutely.

I agree that living with someone addicted to alcohol or substances is far more revealing than working with people you aren't related to, don't have a loving relationship with. Many people have both personal and professional experience which imo adds a dimension.

addiction is very very difficult to break free from. This gives you some idea of the support that may work for some people if they get it.

www.hgi.org.uk/resources/delve-our-extensive-library/mental-health-services-nhs-cbt-psychotherapy/overcoming

www.hgi.org.uk/useful-information/what-addiction-how-beat-it

*Anniebach, i agree with you, some of these counsellors are horrendous
My son is an alcoholic, who chose to go to rehab to try to beat his addiction,he came out feeling very bitter
The man called him a liar a cheat and a thief,
He is none of these,
They tend to trat everyone alike, and my son was also very upset that a questionair i was asked to fill in was scoffed at and said to be not true
I was asked what he was like at home,i filled it in truthfully,as he was no trouble was neither a liar or a thief and he only ever got supertalkative and came out with silly jokes etc,
My son started heavy drinking after being stabbed, by his then girlfriends ex,who he had never even met
He is still drinking, not as much but still too much,and i do worry about him, but its an addiction and an illness, but Drs do need to tell people that they ARE alcoholics
His Dr kept referring to him as being drink dependant
I actually rang the Dr and said tell him straight he is an alcoholic,as he thinks drink dependant isnt as bad
The Dr did tell him and it was only then he admitted being an alcoholic.but the rehab didnt help at all, and he still broods about that awful man

Valerie, how does anyone forget a knife attack, your poor son.

I haven't left the house since last November and have no real wish to. For ten years I heard the negative comments I have read here, I know ,no matter what some say, alcoholism is still not accepted as an illness , and the "experts, here confirm my belief. After ten years I am tired and so have no wish to hear the same blaming the victim of this illness and being told it's their choice.

I so hope your son makes a good recovery and wish you the strength to keep supporting him x

Valerie I can empathise totally. One of my DB’s “experts” removed his well documented BPD diagnosis and said he was just a thrill seeker. His first rehab was done at home because he wasn’t an addict despite the fact he couldn’t be without a bottle of vodka a day because he would fit. The mind boggles and I don’t understand how these experts get away with such shoddy treatment. There was no support for the people who were caring for him either. I was horrified to see them buy him a beer because as long as it wasn’t vodka or wine it was ok. Naturally his slide towards the bottom was quite quick. It sounds like I blame everyone else. I don’t. I just think things could have been handled so much better with more straight talking to him and his careers.

I wonder when people will stop blaming drug addicts and alcoholics?

They didn’t choose to become dependent.

I agree OldMeg, by saying it's a choice they are saying my daughter wanted to die in the river

Is it unreasonable to expect all of us to take some responsibility for our behaviour?

No, Iam it is not unreasonable and I have every sympathy with people whose loved ones have made poor choices leading to addiction and who have been badly affected because of it; people, often family members or spouses, who have been stolen from, lied to, let down etc. However, the fact remains that, for whatever reason, some people do become addicted and they need help, kindness and compassion; so too do those who care for them and suffer alongside.

I am the daughter of an alcoholic and the granddaughter of a gambling addict and so I have been careful all of my life to avoid any possibility of addiction. I was teetotal from my teens to my forties and I now have a 'two drink' rule, I have never bought a lottery ticket (though I do have £10 of Premium Bonds) and have never taken an illegal drug or any prescribed medication that I believed may lead to a dependency. Yet I understand how some people get drawn into making poor choices that lead to addiction - I am currently overweight and know that it's because I need to eat differently; I am making poor food choices!

In my professional life I have worked with many people addicted to drink or drugs and have nothing but sympathy for the sadness of lives that could have been lived differently. I am currently working with homeless people and see all too often how low some people can get, but often the drinks or drugs are an attempt at self-medication to escape from past or current hurting situations, or a response to physical or mental illness. Kindness and compassion can't fix their situations, but it really does help people to know they are cared for.

if they are incapable of taking responsibility because they are so confused and so very depressed then yes it is unreasonable to expect them to do so.

grannyactivist, thanks for your post. I agree with your comments and your first paragraph expresses my own feelings well. I also empathise with your 2nd and 3rd paragraphs - I've had similar life and work experiences and agree that kindness and compassion don't fix situations but knowing that loved ones/workers really care does help.

Kindness and compassion don't fix situations but they certaintly help. If they are not part of the whole then best anyone involved in "caring" should walk away.

There is no cut and dried reasons and this is what makes it so difficult to understand or comment on Some may use is as a blanket to cover dreadful happenings in their lives but one day that comfort blanket becomes as damaging as the original reason they were trying to escape, some may through genetics have a predisposition to addictions, maybe there is a chemical imbalance in some brains but there are a group of people who do become addicted through lifestyle choices and damaging friendships which they are not prepared to walk away from or change These are the ones abusing NHS staff on a Saturday night week after week
Everyone will have different experiences with different reasons and different reactions No size fits all
It’s also unfair to suggest every counsellor is a charleton there are many that do good work in difficult circumstances

I don't think every counsellor is a charlatan. I do think the system is broken and the people in it, such as counsellors, are not able to do their best because they need to get patients through and out the other side as quickly as they can. When they do, the queue of referrals is probably ever longer. This must impact on their ability to do the most effective job even if their intentions are good.
Walking away from damaging relationships is a whole different discussion!!!

No one has said all counsellors are charlatans. No different to staff in homes for the elderly or those with learning difficulties etc, many have compassion and are kind, some do not.

How easy for a counsellor to tell a parent to walk away, let them get on with it, they need to reach rock bottom, they need to take responsibility.

I tried that and it couldn't be done, not by me.

Fact, this is the one illness which the majority still judge harshly

Walking away from damaging relationships is a whole different discussion if it's about a couple. I'm sure BlueBelle will correct me if I misunderstood. I read her comment as referring to the way heavy drinkers and substance users tend only to mix with people living the same lifestyle. Many residential drug treatment centres ensure clients are re-housed away from areas they previously lived in. The risk of falling back into old friendship circles where drugs and alcohol form the bond is too high.
I agree that the system is broken but it's impossible to discuss that aspect of it, for me at any rate, without referring to the austerity programme which has left services decimated.

The system has been broken for years, long before austerity reared its ugly head. Anything to do with mental health seems to be underfunded or poorly driven.

Again it seems "one size fits all". Some addicts tend only to mix with people living the same life style and not -

heavy drinkers and substance users tend only to mix with people living the same lifestyle

That’s true that mh has long been underfunded but it’s inescapable that it’s got much worse as a result of funding being taken from statutory agencies. One knock on effect is that charitable services no longer get any funding from local authorities so it’s lose, lose and lose again.

Is it not also true that the numbers needing help with mental health has increased greatly ?

It is Annie, the number of adults and children needing mental health services continues to increase.

Is it that we have more mental health illness or we are better at recognising it? I know that every report I had from school spoke of my mood swings, melancholy and lethargy but it was only as a middle-aged adult it was classed as depression so I got treatment. It was only when I stopped the treatment and reverted to Eeyore status, did I realise that I'd suffered all my life and treatment would probably be lifelong. Similarly, I am able to look at my GD and recognise behaviours which could be classed as anxiety; with my own daughter, I just thought it was bad behaviour. The internet has helped enlighten us as has tv, etc. These things weren't always talked about.

icanhand - I know I said there is more mental illness but I agree that a large part of that is that we're better at recognising and acknowledging it.
I have a number of close friends whose father's would these days be diagnosed with PTSD, anxiety or depression, any number of diagnosis would be possible. they had what was then referred to as "a bad war", in Japanese prison camps for example. They had mood swings, drank to excess at times, were sometimes violent to their wives and children but generally, managed to hold down professional work and were seen as "successful" men. It's only as we've all grown older that the obvious connection with their war experience has helped friends realise how much their fathers suffered.

When I was at school we had lots of "naughty boys". These days, we have boys with a diagnosis of ADHD, autism etc. One of my grandsons is very bright but was so often in trouble at primary school he was labeled "disruptive". He was diagnosed at autistic at age 8 and it helped enormously. He was given various responsibilities at school which he loved. It helped him avoid the pressures of the playground and also, meant he wasn't spending so much time in exclusion or outside the head's office. The teachers were more understanding as a result of information they got from CAMHS and he was able to begin to develop an understanding of what the diagnosis meant for him.