substance and alcohol abuse

Oh Coconut sorry but I think if you had read people's posts properly i.e Anniebachs you would have been more aware of what they have suffered and I hope that in future you would be sensitive to people's hurt and tread more carefully with your words!! Not everything is 'textbook'...read between the lines re the broken lives and the lost lives...

varian, the damage alcohol or drugs do to the brain will often make an addict delusional, cruel, lacking empathy, etc. Coupled with the body's overwhelming need for the chemical of choice, this can make a normally nice person behave in ways that are completely abhorrent to their sober, addiction free self.
Not only have I watched my DB succumb to his addictions but I grew up with a functioning, alcoholic step-father and my Uncle was one. My Uncle would stay off alcohol for years but when things went wrong like his company closed down or his marriage broke up he would find himself turning to alcohol and the slide downhill was swift. He would carry on drinking because he knew how awful the cold turkey would be if he stopped. My step-father was a military man who got his rations of rum and cigarettes in a culture which was very boozy, such as toasting the Queen as the sun went over the yard arm. He held down his job and financially supported his family but couldn't give up drinking to save his marriage and stay living with his family although it broke his heart.
These things are never black and white but you really can't understand the strength of the pull of addiction unless you have lived through it as or with an addict.
Anniebach, I understand exactly where you are coming from with Coconut's comments. Your last one, Coconut sounded extremely patronising.

Thank you, I didn't mean to disrupt the the thread but no human should be compared with such.

I was told by a rehab clinic, my daughters GP, her psychiatristt, Mind, and A.A. That alcohol does cause damaged to the brain - you can see how many I pestered !

My heart aches for you, Anniebach, and for everyone who has the problems of a loved one to try to solve, or ,at least, alleviate. Some of us find life more difficult to cope with and need all our support. It's not appropriate to assume the moral high ground here.

That’s interesting - I would say my OH was an alcoholic for something like 14 years before it killed him. At the inquest we found that every organ of his body was undamaged except for the liver which was showing signs of getting cirrhosis. The coroner listed each organ and remarked on the state it was in. The fact that everything else was OK DD and myself found extremely upsetting - he obviously could have lived to a good age as his parents and siblings did had he not been an alcoholic.
Maybe the alcohol affects people in different ways.

In reply to someone who asked, yes, there does appear to be a genetic predisposition to alcoholism.

lesley4357
I am “just a mental health nurse” who has specialised in addictions for the last 18 years for both nhs drug and alcohol teams and currently a charitable organisation that took over as the provider in the area when the nhs lost the tender. I provide interventions daily for drug and alcohol clients and facilitate alcohol detoxifications as well as opiate detoxifications ( the medication is prescribed by a nurse who is also just a mental health nurse)
I see frequently that along with members of our wider team plus community based support (AA NA Smart Recovery etc ) us nurses manage to help people make successful changes.
Counsellors may be unqualified , nurses will not be , addictions comes under the umberella of mental health.

The dept for health in America did a study and took tests on many families.one being an alcoholic father of twin boys. The boys were also tested and one grew up alcoholic. Both the father and alcoholic son had the chemical missing from the part of the brain that senses pleasure amongst other things. While the other son had no addictions and had the brain chemical. Sorry can't remember the books name it was a long while ago that I read it

Cabbie21
I'd be worried too.
Heck, what sort of woman/mother gets so hammered that she has to be helped or carried upstairs after an 'evening' out?
It gives a really bad impression not to mention the fact that she'd almost definitely be over the limit the next day. I jolly well hope that her husband doesn't let her have the car keys on the morning after the night before.

I wonder how AnnieBach would describe a drug addict who attacked and robbed her and wrecked her home in the process or an alcoholic who, after binging all night and secretly having a drink first thing, gets in a car to do the school run and mounts a pavement killing a group of children?
Would there be sympathy for their 'illness'?
I can bet that 'rabid dog' would be mild compared to some comments if those scenarios took place.

Chrishappy One anecdotal story doesn't prove anything re a chemical missing in the brains of alcoholics. It simply isn't scientific. I worked with drug addicts and alcoholics during my working life and have never read of such a study. It is complicated with twin studies. Is it genetic? Are certain personality traits passed on that predispose to alcoholism? Is it the effect of the environment/ situation someone finds themselves in?People react to stress differently- some by turning to alcohol, some overeat, some starve, self harm, get depressed etc.

My initial question was prompted by recent events within my close family/friendship group. There have been many well informed and compassionate responses. I agree that a line is crossed by some people, that leads from recreational to dependence on substances. I believe that mental health problems like depression, anxiety, adhd etc often underpin substance abuse/dependence.
Not everyone who suffers from or lives with those kind of difficulties sinks into alcohol/substance dependence. Many people who had very difficult early life experiences don't fall into addiction. I know people who've seen the writing on the wall and made positive changes. I don't mean to be harsh about those who don't do this but the impact of their addictions on their loved ones can't be underestimated.

Sorry but I think you are harsh, for me you are saying it is a choice, some choose to cause pain for those who,love them.

Anniebach, I'm questioning the point at which choice goes out the window. I'm also suggesting that people are all different, some people who become addicts were already selfish and cruel to their loved ones. Not all, of course but to imply that every addict is a victim who has no responsibility for their actions leaves me feeling uncomfortable.
I am not talking about your daughter Annie. I'm speaking of years of work with addicts and sadly, rather more personal knowledge that I'd have chosen.

May I ask your qualifications in the field of addiction and mental health?

Thank you GabriellaG: I have read all the posts and my heart truly goes out to the many tragedies others have had to face, plus I have witnessed my own brothers demons. The excesses that I have been faced with prove that alcohol and drugs de-humanises SOME people. It’s just as you say, if anyone’s loved ones were robbed, attacked or killed by addicts, the adjectives would be a lot worse.... this is the real world, just watch any of the reality Police shows on TV to see what the emergency services are having to deal with on a daily basis .... whatever way you look at it, it’s hearbreaking.

I believe that living with an alcoholic is far more revealing than working with one or more. Some people are just heavy drinkers, but an alcoholic is so very different. It is a physical, mental and spiritual illness and I'm sure that as a child these people don't say ' when i grow up i want to be an alcoholic and wreck my life and other's ' the alcoholics in my life are beautiful people who would help anyone and have compassion in their hearts for others. They luckily found soberity with the help from other alcoholics . Though they will remain alcoholics till the day they die abiet sober one's. To label someone alcoholic is wrong, they have to do it for themselves, it is the key to acceptance of their illness, and sadly many never reach that point and the.

I think any mental health issue is as varied as are people.
The reasons why, the way it affects people, the patterns of their addiction.
There is no 'one size fits all' approach, because everyone is an individual.

My daughter is an alcoholic but has not touched alcohol for several years. I am incredibly proud of her. She will be the first to say that, as previously mentioned, most addicts do not start to heal until they reach rock bottom,
There is research that suggests that there is a genetic influence to addiction. I believe that the tendency to addiction is an illness but, that only the addict can do anything about recovery.
I had a friend who was a ‘functioning alcoholic”. She died as a result of her addiction and, although she acknowledged her problem, was unable to help herself.
Drug addiction, apart from those addicted to prescribed drugs has the same result but, I suppose, one could say that drug addicts should not have tried the drug in the first place as addiction could be foreseen. Alcohol, on the other hand, is socially acceptable so who knows whose first drink is going to result in dependence?

Many people who are clearly alcoholics will not admit it to themselves - my OH was a completely different personality when he started drinking and gave us all mental as well as physical abuse - it was the GP who pointed that out to me when I was talking to him about the situation.
Everyone is different and living with the person 24/7 is also different to seeing a person when they are visiting you for short periods or you visit them.

Tweedle24, in this day and age, even drug addiction is not as clear cut as saying they should not have have started them. Many, many start out on prescription drugs issued by their Dr's and find themselves sliding into addiction without even realising it. Once they are denied prescriptions by their GP's, they then find themselves in a terrible cold turkey situation and buy the drugs online or a dealer. My DB never considered himself an addict because he didn't do cocaine, heroine or the like. He brought prescription drugs off the internet which eventually killed him. Even as an addict, the GP still prescribed him addictive drugs and we believe that is why he didn't stay clean. After all, if your GP knowingly prescribes them, they must be ok.
As for the "inhumane acts" people do when they are desperate for money for drugs, or driving a car whilst under the influence, of course it is completely wrong, terrible for the victims, etc., but it doesn't mean you can't have compassion for the underlying problems that exist which have led that addict to the place they are at.

I can only speak from experience of my daughter being an alcoholic, I don't care what "experts in the field " say , my daughter did not open up completelty to them, she was not in denial, she asked me to help get her into rehab, it took me two years and I did wonder if when she was given a place it was to shut me up! I even went to the Welsh Assembly. She was to stay for three months with an extra grant for a further three months. She was in contact with me almost daily, I knew after the first month there were problems the deeper they got into discussing why she drank, the barriers were going up, she was uncomfortable in group therapy too. She was so friendly and outgoing yet on some things very private . She discharged herself.

A poster who has worked in this field said not all children who have a troubled childhood become addicts, true, not all children who are sexually abused become abusers some do.

MissAdventure summed it up perfectly, there is no one size fits all.

I think it is a great pity that the government won't crack down on alcohol in the same way as smoking, it can be addictive and cause huge amounts of harm not only to anyone addicted and their family, but also by way of drink-driving, and must cost the NHS a fortune.

we have the minimum price per unit arriving soon in Scotland .Although primarily it should deal with youngsters buying cheap drink and binging on it it may slow down the slide into alcoholism for others ..and save the NHS from the onslaught of drunks at weekends .We shall see ,until then education is key with teenagers who consume amounts of booze that scare the wits out of me .

Anniebach, that wait to get into rehab appears more normal than people would believe. My DB had somebody willing to fund private rehab at one stage but he had to have a GP to refer him; they refused. The investigation after his death into the failure of care by the GP and mental health professionals was just a white-wash. One of the problems of our mental health workers is that each area seems to be a separate referral so DB's anxiety was dealt with at a different dept at different times to the rehab even though the two were interconnected; ne'er the twain will meet. Some of the counselling was done with external agencies because there was too much demand within the NHS. Quite a few of these were run by religious groups who seemed anxious to recruit. Whilst DB enjoyed the philosophical discussions about God, he found it off-putting to have to avoid recruitment so left. You really couldn't make up the awkwardness of getting help which also has to coincide with a person's strength to do the rehab. Stopping without help is highly dangerous and sometimes fatal.
I felt the same way as some of the less empathetic posters but I have to say experience has shown me a completely different view. Interestingly, a recent discussion about alcohol and drug abuse at my DS's school suggested that we start by being aware that every time we dose our children with paracetamol or the like, we are making it easier for them to say yes to prescription drugs without question. Teach them how to control pain and their emotions without the need for drugs and they stand a better chance in not being addicts.