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DD and DSIL loan

(102 Posts)
lucyinthesky Wed 27-Jun-18 10:41:05

My DSIL lost his high paying job at the end of January and I offered to loan DD the money for nursery fees for DGS2 to keep him there until end July for which they were very grateful. I don't have huge savings and am a single Mum but really didn't want DGS2 to miss out and be taken out of nursery while DD works parttime.

I expected that when DSIL got his payout for constructive dismissal (around 80K plus) I would get paid back. Seems not. When I asked if I could have the money at the beginning of August as I have things being done in my flat and don't want to use credit DD said she thought I didn't want the money back until after DSIL got a new job and if I couldn't afford to lend it they would have taken DGS2 out of nursery!

DSIL has no job in the offing and is considering starting his own business. DD works part time from home. Besides their house they also have a flat which they rent out and don't want to sell as the market is poor (which I understand) They plan to pay back some of their mortgage when he gets his payout but not pay me back my loan.

I've said I don't want to fall out over this but AIBU in expecting my money back before they back off a lump sum of their mortgage?

Oopsadaisy53 Wed 27-Jun-18 10:46:53

No you aren’t being unreasonable as you clearly said it was a loan. The mistake you made was to say that it was until the SIL had another job?

But it looks as though you are all going to fall out over it.

As it’s been said on here many times, if you can’t afford to lose money that you’ve ‘loaned ‘ to family, then don’t give it in the first place, no matter how good you’re intentions are.

BlueBelle Wed 27-Jun-18 10:47:06

To be honest you should have discussed a payback date before lending not after as it constantly gets changed otherwise and everyone blames everyone else
Clarity of needs should be made before the loan

Oopsadaisy53 Wed 27-Jun-18 10:47:57

Your not you’re
blasted predictive text

lucyinthesky Wed 27-Jun-18 10:53:54

Yes I should have made it clear I needed it back in the summer but tbh I thought he would have got another job by now :-( Total misunderstanding on both parts.

I'm cross that they see paying a lump sum off their mortgage more urgent than repaying my £2,500 first.

Maggiemaybe Wed 27-Jun-18 11:01:04

That's understandable, lucy. I hope it doesn't end up with your falling out, as a good relationship with your family will always be more important than money. But at least you know how the land lies now and will know not to lend to them again.

Luckygirl Wed 27-Jun-18 11:03:05

Oh dear - crossed wires here. But if I were your DD and you said you needed the money back ,I would definitely prioritise that over paying a chunk of mortgage off. Family first and all that.

NfkDumpling Wed 27-Jun-18 11:04:19

Perhaps if you cancel the work to be done and let them know that you can’t afford it, it may shame them into paying you back?

I have a similar problem with DiL as I loaned her money to pay off a high interest credit card. (Not as much as you loaned.). She was supposed to pay me back instead - but hasn’t. The difference is that I don’t desperately need the money for anything else.

I’m getting it back slowly though. I had said I would pay for DGS swimming lessons - so I told her I’d just take the money off the loan instead. We paid half towards his new bike - that came off the loan instead of giving her cash. She will pay me back, one way or another!

grannyactivist Wed 27-Jun-18 11:06:34

No you are most definitely not being unreasonable. I think your daughter's response is very poor indeed - and really very insensitive at best and selfish at worst. I think your best approach now is to sit down with both of them and say that in view of your son-in-law planning to start his own business rather than getting a job that it would be helpful if your loan could be repaid from his payout. Explain that you were happy to lend them the money, but that you cannot afford to make them a gift of it.

lucyinthesky Wed 27-Jun-18 11:13:51

grannyactivist They know it was never intended as a gift. DD knows I can't afford gifts of that amount much as I wish I could. ExH on the other hand hasn't offered anything to them even though he can afford it.

I got the impression from DD's initial response that she was OK with paying me back but after she checked with DSIL she relied with all the excuses under the sun. So I think problem lies more with him than her.

I'll still have the work done in my flat (to finish what was begun last year) but won't be offering them money again. Lesson learnt the hard way. I just didn't want DGS2 missing out on his 3 days a week nursery.

lucyinthesky Wed 27-Jun-18 11:14:39

replied not relied! Fatfingers day.

NfkDumpling Wed 27-Jun-18 11:16:39

Perhaps send the bill for the work to them?!

lucyinthesky Wed 27-Jun-18 11:39:47

Dumpling Ha! Tempting lol

Riverwalk Wed 27-Jun-18 11:55:28

Of course you're not being unreasonable in expecting to be paid back before they pay off some of the mortgage.

From what you've said, they seem not to be very financially savvy - SIL was a high earner but didn't put enough aside to pay nursery fees of £2,500; and mortgage interest rates are currently very low so it makes no sense to use up their capital right now.

I'm always amazed at high-earners who live up to the hilt and have no reserves when disaster hits.

I hope it all doesn't lead to a falling out with your DD.

lucyinthesky Wed 27-Jun-18 12:02:56

Riverwalk He thinks he's financially savvy but I agree he's not. If they want to be mortgage free (which I can understand under the circs as their outgoing would be far less then) they could sell the flat (which has increased by £80K in the 10 years since they bought it) as it has just a small amount left owing to pay.

I've told DD I don't want us to fall out but I've learned a valuable (if expensive) lesson.

Thanks everyone - at least I don't feel IABU

Bluegal Wed 27-Jun-18 17:29:14

FWIW I don't think you are being unreasonable at all. Surely they can repay you AND a substantial amount of money off their mortgage?

Sounds like SIL has said "forget mum, she can afford it".

I would be angry too!!

What to do about it though? IF you have pointed out to your daughter that you really can't afford to give them the money and she still sides with her husband. Do you A) insist or do you just suck it up and put it down to experience. I know what I would do! If any of mine did anything like this, I would say 'Hey' You are leaving me short now and I was being forget all the childminding, fetching, carrying etc I do. When you repay me I will do it. BUT I guess I am confident they do need me for the extras I would not be cast aside for long.

All depends on your circumstances as to how you deal with it. But being unreasonable? Never! Good luck Lucy

M0nica Wed 27-Jun-18 17:31:33

I think they are treating you very unfairly. Fees for 2 terms at nursery, is not cheap, but it is an insignificant proportion of the 80K payout he has received.

How about playing the emotional blackmail card? Do as another poster says, cancel or scale down on the work on your flat and keep harping on about all the things you cannot afford at the moment because your finances are so tight (birthday presents, days or meals out, a holiday). Do it subtly but persistently and shame them into paying you.

Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

Bluegal Wed 27-Jun-18 17:35:28

Not sure I agree Monica....Scaling back and not doing the work on the flat only hurts the OP, not the daughter and SIL who continue to have two properties, 80K and their children in nursery! If they are too insensitive to see this then I doubt emotional blackmail would make much different but jmo.

jenpax Wed 27-Jun-18 17:44:39

Unfortunately a lesson to be learned here of clear prior discussions! I lent one AC about £2000 a few years ago and have had half back after reminders? despite some lump sums coming their way since!
I have decided to write this off as I have with other AC family “loans” it’s just not worth the Aggrevation.

sodapop Wed 27-Jun-18 17:45:44

I agree with Bluegal don't think they will be shamed now. I do think though you should have an honest talk with them and say how you feel.
Sadly a lesson learned, no more offers of financial help.

grannyactivist Wed 27-Jun-18 18:14:42

Lucy I honestly think a chat with both of them is the way forward. Your son-in-law is, I imagine, going to be embarrassed at having to face you personally rather than relaying his responses through your daughter. Writing off the loan will always be 'the elephant in the room' and could possibly cause a bit of an atmosphere for some time to come.

lucyinthesky Wed 27-Jun-18 18:15:17

No they won't be shamed and DD will side with DSIL - I was quite shocked after her :-) face reply more or less agreeing to pay me back and then after speaking to DSIL making out I was being unreasonable in wanting the money sooner rather than later!

I didn't even mention that when I last saw them in May they had bought a THIRD flat screen TV!

No more offers of money will be coming their way now so that's rather short sighted of them.

lucyinthesky Wed 27-Jun-18 18:21:02

granny the next time I see them will be DD's birthday when I've already offered them either a meal out for the two of them while I babysit or we all go en famille to the local farm with play area for lunch.

As the loan was offered to DD I have no intention of bringing it up with DSIL. I don't think there will be an atmosphere because I've told her I don't want to fall out about it but I will remind her at some point that I can't wait for ever.

However, I could worst comes to the worst write it off at the end of this year when I might be in a better situation financially but then would feel duty bound to gift DD2 the same sum of money. She of course has no idea I've lent her DSiS any money.

Never again.

M0nica Wed 27-Jun-18 19:55:04

He said he would pay it back when he got a new job. OK on the first day he starts working on his business demand it back. A job is a job whether he has a manager or is self employed.

mumofmadboys Wed 27-Jun-18 21:25:59

I would avoid falling out over it. Wait till he is working again and then after a month or two ask DD if they can arrange to re-pay it please , if necessary in 2 or 3 installments.As you already said don't lend them money again. Hope it all works out.