DD and DSIL loan

Lucy in the sky.
There was ' expectation' from yourself and ' I thought' from your daughter concerning the money you were providing for GS's nursery fees.Expectations & thoughts rarely if ever give satisfactory results.
I understand this was purely a mother to daughter donation and did not involve a legal agreement. Sadly all you can now do is talk to your daughter and hope that she will see it from your point of view and that it was a loan and that the money is now needed so you can complete the things you have started in your property. Would you be in agreement that she and SIl repaid the money you loaned them on a monthly basis which would not put too much of a strain on their finances until SIl got a job.? This time do it the legal way.At least you will be able to complete you own plans and save the relationship with your family which is the most important thing.

Sounds draconian GabriellaG - a very last resort surely and family relations could be irreparably damaged.
OP did say she didn’t want to fall out over this.

NanaRayna AEO is an attachment to earnings order so a court judgement is obtained and then an order sought from the cout to allow the debt to be deducted directly from the debtors salary?

MawBroon
Draconian...yes but rather than have an 'elephant in the room', as some have suggested there is when you choose not to bring it up, I chose to put it to the AC that I don't 'do' lies and the lies as to why the money was urgently needed were unacceptable.
I spelled out what an AEO meant and that brought a result.
Being forgiving and overlooking blatant lies and disrespect is not a cloak I wear with anyone, much less family. I certainly don't value relationships at ANY and ALL costs and that AC is not worth my having ongoing resentment had payment not been made.
We've not spoken since then but in any case, the AC only ever text and 99.9% were to ask for favours or money, unlike the other 4 AC who manage perfectly well.
I can live without that albatross.

Thanks mumofmadboys

I think it's a good idea to ask if they can pay back in instalments even though it doesn't suit me.

£2,500 is hardly a fortune I would have thought they would of had the good grace to pay this off first. Especially being family and knowing that you are not made of money.

Bbface they managed to find enough money to buy a third flat screen TV since he lost his job - money which could have paid for at least one month of nursery fees!

SiL has Aspergers - he isn't good at emotional stuff AT ALL - comes from an extremely poor background and money means everything to him.

My exH used a £50K payout to start up his own business after he was made redundant some years ago and I supported him doing so - I am fully supportive of SiL doing it too, as overall they will all have a better quality of life/work balance which has not been the case while he earned a very high salary.

Relationship with DD is fine atm - I do not want a fallout. I have only two DDs and two DGSs and no other family.

Thanks everyone for taking time out to reply.

I have learnt a lesson and will not offer money again and will be careful about how payback is done if they ask me in the future. Somehow I don't think they will. They didn't in this case. it as purely by chance when I asked how DGS2 was getting on at nursery that DD told me they were pulling him out as they didn't have the money and I offered (as any GP would?)

There’s nothing worse than being taken for granted and this is what’s happened to you. There was a promise to pay it back when he got a new job. Did they or you know about the impending lump sum when this promise was made? If so then I think I would wait for payment when his business is up and running. If not they should really have paid you back when they received the money as it isn’t much out of what they received. It is difficult when you try to help and it backfires and even more so when you feel guilty and obliged to give the same amount to your other daughter. Wait a while and if your daughter doesn’t mention it raise the subject later when you feel less upset about it.

You are certainly not being unreasonable.
I don't undrstand the muddied waters around borrowing money.
They borrowed money.
They pay it back.
Simple.
If we borrow something we are duty bound to prioritise its return.
If they borrowed your lawnmower/car etc they'd know to give it back.

I also find it very sad that younger people are so keen to fall out with parents over money that should be paid back.
When the loan is given there are usually heartfelt statements from the AC that they will pay it back as a priority.
It's as if they are surprised we want them to keep to their word and their assurances of returning the money.

Sue them for the money

I am afraid that if you said you would like the money back when your SIL got a job, with his mind set, that is what he will do and you would have the greatest difficulty changing his mind. I guess DD told him that was the arrangement. In those circumstances that will be the time to press for the money to be returned. Five decades ago my dad insisted on us signing an agreement before he lent us £50 to get a car on the road, we understood well the kind of trouble there would be if we didn't pay it back. I don't see why you should let it go but pick your time to mention it again perhaps when they are both present but speaking to daughter, not worth falling out over.

Bbface you are being unreasonable. 80k is a huge sum to most people, about 3/4 years wages to some, to expect a measly 2.5k back which means a lot to op is NOT unreasonable and is less than 3% of what he got. Besides which it is common decency to repay a loan and if it can't be done out of 80k when will it ever be paid back? I am gobsmacked by your comment.

I suggest you watch Judge Rinder - your situation is really very common - close relatives 'loaning' money without stipulating very clearly what the terms of the loan are - in this case you were swayed by your love for your GS. You and your daughter both made assumptions - she that you didn't want it repaying until SIL got a job, and you that it would be paid once SIL got his payout. But think about this - if SIL was dismissed presumably he has had no income for six months and has been notching up bills and extending his credit so that payout needs to be used to clear off these debts. And if you thought he would pay back once he was in receipt of a regular salary, how would that work - would it be a bit each month or would you expect all his salary for a couple of months to repay you? I don't see there's anything you can do now except wait and when he does get a job be prepared to wait even longer as he will still need to live from month to month and the amount of spare income to pay you back will probably not be large. There's a lesson to be learned here - always get some kind of a contract when you're loaning out your money.

I only lend my offspring money under strict pay back conditions. I quite often let them off the last few payments though.

I learned the hard way when I was a young mother that you cannot even trust your own mother.

I think you have been treated very badly. If the man got £80,000 compensation and your daughter works part time, there is a mass of money with which to pay you back.

You must ask for it back.

There should have been a signed agreement....family or not.

On a much smaller scale I once loaned my DS £250...I could ill afford it but they promised to pay it back within the year. 2 years passed...nothing. When DGS was born I phoned to say...sweetly...not to worry about the £200 you owe. Just buy the crib I was going to get with it. He was happy with that.....I think

Bbbface How rude and scathing. Would you possibly be the kind of DD would lie about it being a loan and then not repay it.
OP is not at fault at all. If anything she was too soft and kind. I hope you read back thread and take down your spiteful comment

Jane yes they did know there would be a lump sum from his employers at some point.

lulu sorry for confusion but it was never discussed that money would be paid back when he got a job. I think we all 'assumed' (stupidly in retrospect) that he would get a job sooner rather than later.

I truly thought the money would be forthcoming before the work on my flat was scheduled to be done in August. I'm not sure I would even have considered asking for it back so soon if I hadn't seen their 3rd flat screen TV on the wall of family room!

flower lol

A close relative needed a loan and was embarrassed to ask but had to. My reply: I won't lend you any money but I will give to you instead. She was very grateful and our relationship is as good as ever. My sons have often borrowed small sums in the past (no longer) and when it has been offered back, as it always has, I have said keep it. I know not everyone can do this and I am certainly not wealthy, but all I need is money to pay bills, food and the roof over my head and I still work so hey, sooner them have it now. However, I am disgusted with op's family response.

I lent my daughter a much bigger amount than this as a deposit on a house ( money from divorce settlement) she has repaid it regularly and now owes me only a tiny bit. Two daughters and I live close and we all help each other out with small amounts of money when necessary and I think you have been put into a very sad and difficult position and your DD and SIL are taking the mick.

Unfortunately this is just one in a long line of family money matters which should have been covered in writing. Not by some expensive lawyer, but just by putting down in writing what all the parties intend and everyone signing that paper.

Any verbal agreement is subject to misinterpretation. When putting such maatters down on paper that very act makes one think about what is intended aand that leads to some discussion; then any lack of understanding becomes obvious and can be cleared up before completion.

Both/all sides need to be clear from the start what they want. The time to make it clear is before money is given.

Honestly the cheek of these ' entitled' grown up offspring!

I would be furious in your situation. The thing is, although £2,500 is clearly a lot to you and needed now for your building work, it's such a small percentage of the £80,000 plus you said son in law will receive, so there is no excuse for them not to pay you back. They would still be able to put the rest towards their mortgage.

A loan is a loan after all, not a gift.

I loaned my sons parter £3500 4 years ago to take over the hairdressers she worked in 6 months later they "needed" a new car as they were now having another baby. So I put the car on my credit card took them all on holiday next year and while she was extremely drunk told me what she really thought of me. We all fell out 3 years ago come September, I still see the 2 grandchildren on their terms ie when they need a babysitter, but I have never seen a penny of my money. I think she orchestrated the fight knowing my sap of a son would take her part and they wouldn't need to pay me back. Like you big lesson learned!!

Loans to family members are very divisive, with any commercial loan there are penalties if repayment is not made on schedule, a family loan will involve emotional pressure to omit payments and let it drift. Other posts have mentioned AOEs, don't do that, write it down to experience.
Let adult children sort their own finances out, if that means they can only afford 2 screens in the family room, tough. Be very carefull with family members setting up their own business 3 out 4 fail to last or make very little money.
There is one safe way to help, a gift as a deposit on their first house, paying rent is a hiding to nothing, get them on the housing ladder as soon as possible