What Would You Do

I think a lot of this is not about the shower, really.

You see the house as yours, because you paid the mortgage. All landlords have paid/are paying the mortgage on their properties; but when they are rented out they are not their homes.

Your daughter might be asserting herself as a renter by doing the 'my house/my rules' thing. That isn't (to me) unreasonable. You are effectively a guest in her flat, whether you like it or not, and guests don't call the shots, particularly when they haven't been invited (sorry).

What does your partner have to say about his? You say that the situation is causing problems in your relationship with him, which suggests that he has an opinion on it all.

It is fairly easy to resolve, really; but it would mean accepting that the flat is yours in name only, so long as someone is paying you rent.

If you ask your daughter to find another flat and rent yours to someone else, there will be no issue, as you would not be allowed to stay there. This might alienate your daughter, though, and you would need to consider if doing that is worth it for a couple of weeks a year.

If you stay in a hotel/b&b when you are in the UK, your daughter would have the quiet enjoyment of her space that she is paying for.

If she is paying below the market rate, she could maybe find a flatmate and share the rent. If they agreed on the use of the facilities and put it in the contract, that could be a solution, and she would learn that compromise is sometimes necessary.

If that wouldn't work, you could increase the rent in small doses, so that she isn't immediately priced out.

Honestly, as you spend most of your time abroad, do you want to risk souring your relationship with your daughter (and maybe your partner) over an occasional visit?

Sorry - I missed the last few posts while typing.

I can see it's a difficult situation. Your DD is never going to be happy having a non family member intrude into what she feels, is her personal living space. She will have to accept that you are doing her a favour by letting her live in your flat at a low rent.

You will either have to swop rooms, or install another shower.

Or, better still, can't she rent somewhere outside London and commute? Rail travel is expensive I know, but if she wants a London life she will have to fund it.

Your daughter has three choices:
*shower in the evening;
*have a bath /wash in the morning;
*pay herself to have a shower installed in the bathroom.

Or of course she could find alternative accommodation if his presence in your bed offends her.
No 'insisting' on arrangements as long as it is your flat.

She rents it from you and pays you so why do you think you can stay there just when you want??? If I was you then I would go and stay somewhere else when your bloke comes here to stay. You are being so unfair in expecting her to fit around you. If I was her I would tell you to stick the flat where the sun doesn't shine! Why should she have to pussy foot around you, especially him so that she can have a shower in her own flat. You are being unfair!

I think she has a cheek! She's got a lovely London flat with cheap rent for most of the year. Does she have gym membership? My sons used to shower at the gym on their way to work when eight of us lived here. There was a queue for the power shower and no, the shower over the bath wasn't used - as it was fed from a tank (not the mains) it was deemed not strong enough in flow!

crystaltipps I shall be costing out the extra shower. She does already sometimes have a shower in the evening but that often turns in o a very late evening one when we are already in bed!

Hetty58 no she doesn't have gym membership. I suspect we will have similar problems with a shower over the bath - it's not always a simple process as some think.

why I'm not being unfair. She pays a very low rent (less than a lodger would let alone full marke price) and I pay majority of bills (including council tax) If she wasn"t there I would live in the flat far more than I currently do. DP and I do not stay often and he's usually only there for a week a few times a year.

GoneGirl I will be having serious talks with DD about her future living arrangements.

We need to plan what happens in the Brexshit situation anyway and she needs to know that I will in effect be living in the flat for 180 days a year, many of them with DP!

Why I wish she would tell me to stick the flat where the sun don't shine LOL problem would be solved!

But what is 'a few times'? 5 times? That is roughly 10% of the time.

I think you want it both ways, TBH. To give your daughter a place to live relatively cheaply, (so helping her out) but also to feel that it is your home and she is the guest.

What do you think should happen?

But what is 'a few times'? 5 times? That is roughly 10% of the time. exactly - this is not a lot of time at all. DP comes over 4 -5 times a year max. I am home more often as beside DD I have another DD and 2 DGS to see as well as other family and friends.

I anticipate being home more than I have been in the past and need to let DD know so she can plan too, perhaps to move out over the next six months.

I think you should lay the options open to her, use the existing bathroom, pay for the shower, or find somewhere else to stay. I think really she now considers herself to be the occupant as you have left her there for so long. She's really just staking a claim on the territory. You should probably re-establish yourself, as you are largely subsidising her accommodation. Stay there as much as you want, rather than being her guest. Also point out that the shower is out of bounds until you are both up and dressed.

What do you think should happen, lucyinthesky?

As I said, I don't really think that this is about the shower.

Well then it’s not working
I still don’t consider a child renting my house because I m living elsewhere as a boomerang child
I think you are both similar, she wants cheap rent but her own space all year round ... you want to live overseas but come back whenever it’s convenient to you and it’s just not working

Its a half way solution that suits neither of you completely I can see both sides but to be honest once you rent somewhere out whether it’s cheap or expensive you can’t really call it your home It’s your house but your home is where you ve chosen to live and that appears to be in Paris

Absolutely right it is not just about the shower arrangement.

BlueBelle I really have to disagree with you about Paris being my home. It's really not. Most of my clothes, books and other possessions are in London! It is not just a flat to stay in.

I want to spend far more time in London with my family and friends but am unable to do so because my DD doesn't like my DP spending much time there.

So I'll be talking to her about her future plans based on mine being in London much more next year than previously.

That's the crux of the matter, then.

I hope you can navigate this without alienating your daughter.

Would it help to write down the various options and give them to her saying that you need to have a talk at an appointed time and that you would be happy to hear any suggestions she might have.

No good deed goes unpunished springs to mind!

doodledog so do I. Meanwhile I've texted my builder to ak him to give me a quote for the shower in the bathroom.

lucyinthesky I'm curious about cauncil tax, do you get the 25% single occupant discount? If so, and you intend to 'live' in the flat, ypou will have to pay the full amount, and need to factor that in too.

Good idea sussex but I think in the interim I will mention that the morning shower time isn't working for any of us especially as she now has a boyfriend who sometimes stays over (and I don't want to upset that applecart as she's not had a meaningful relationship for a long time) so I'm getting a quote for a proper shower for the bathroom.

Meanwhile as it is only for a few days (!) could she please have a shower in the evening or use the bathroom in the morning instead.

Finally a discussion about the future ...

humpty No I don't get single person's allowance on council tax as we are both registered as living there. Always have been.

bluebelle You say: "I think you’re lucky she can adapt to your visits as much as I loved my mum and dad I wouldn’t have wanted them turning up every few weeks/months".

The flat belongs to lucyinthesky. She paid the mortgage and is paying most of the bills on it too. Her daughter, who is 34 years old - not a vulnerable teenager - lives in her mother's flat at a greatly reduced rent.

In London she would have to be earning a very good salary to be able to afford a self-contained flat, ie not sharing living areas, kitchen and possibly shower/wc, with other tenants. I bet there are a lot of people who would be only too happy to "tolerate" such a situation as lucy's daughter, in exchange for a comfortable flat at a much cheaper rent, with no fear of maintenance issues being left untended or being chucked out with little notice.

I think it is totally unreasonable of lucy's daughter to expect her mother's partner to be showered and dressed before 8 a.m. just because she won't use the handheld shower in the bathroom for a few weeks. She obviously doesn't realise how fortunate she is.

Lucyinthesky I think you are being more than reasonable about this issue. I hope the provision of a shower in the bathroom settles the matter for you all.

Many thanks Eloethan for your measured response

UPDATE Thanks to the sensible suggestions I emailed DD with the option of possibly having a shower in the bathroom (no mention of who pays, yet!) this is her reply

Oh wow, that's a good idea. Ok I will try to have evening showers and wash my hair using the handheld shower in the mornings.

Result! I'll be taking the next step re DP and me spending more time in London soon ;-)

You seem to have a lot of contempt for your daughter.

Sounds like it’s time to end these living arrangements

You seem to have a lot of contempt for your daughter

I didn't get that impression, at all, from any of Lucy's posts. . I got the impression that she's trying her best to find an arrangement that suits everyone.