What Would You Do

I've been reading this with interest and was about to chip in with my penn'th but things are nicely resolved for the time being.
Every situation changes in time and nothing lasts forever.
I did think there was more going on than meets the eye.
ie Her new boyfriend.
your DP whose presence DD resents?.
you paying more than her yet she lives there all the time.
The shower was the last straw?
I hope the visit goes well.

Why is it necessary for your partner to be up and dressed? You say he is asleep when she comes through.

Why does it matter if he sees her walk to the en-suite in a dressing gown?

Perhaps I've missed something.

In your position, I'd ask her these questions.

lucyinthesky, I really feel for you. This generation (I include my own daughter in this) have quite a sense of entitlement. I do appreciate they have things harder than some previous generations (I don't include mine in this - we had it pretty hard too, no student grants / late-if-ever pensions) BUT the idea of doing without while they work their arses off in their youth to earn middle aged comfort, doesn't seem to occur to them.

I have to say though, she MUST understand that your hand will be forced soon, with BREXIT and that she's going to have to get used to sharing for half the year because you'll have no other option. Better to compromise and get to pay a very minimal cost for a lovely shared London flat than to have to move out into a bedsit.

Thanks Chewbacca

I don't have contempt for my daughter at all Summerlove

GagaJo the future has to be discussed for sure if I have to live in UK for 180 days instead of the few days every few weeks as currently. I'll need my flat then.

But Lucy I m only going by what you say in your opening post i spend most of my time there (meaning Paris) if that’s not how it is and you really want to spend most of your time in London, as you now imply, then you are going to have to talk to your daughter and tell her the arrangement isn’t working as you feel pushed out your own home, and you want to move back so she will have to either move out or revert to being a daughter living at home
I think the lines have got well and truly blurred You see it as. your house that she has boomeranged back to she sees it as her rental property that you sometimes stay in

Whoops now read back (note to self do that before writing in future) and it all seems resolved she’s going to have a shower in the bathroom but doesn’t yet know she’s paying for it ?in the meantime she’s going to shower at night and do her hair in the morning
So a simple negotiation after all
Well done all sorted everyone happy

It's her home, even though she's renting off you. I think perhaps you are not considering her feelings pushing her out when you decide to visit. If it were me and renting off you, I would look for alternative accomodation, it's either hers or its not.

I don't think of this situation as renting, it is what we used to call paying board. We used to give our mother some of our wages to help towards the running costs, in no way did it represent a portion of all the bills.
I think you are managing the situation just fine and she does not sound unreasonable.

If your DD is paying rent based on sharing with one person (you) then it is not okay to make it a 3rd persons weekend/holiday home IMO

If you rent part of it out to her she has a right to peaceful enjoyment of her home.

You cant take her rent then treat it like its your house your rules

so him being able to live in London the rest of the time is paramount in the future.
So will you be reducing DDs rent to be based on 3 sharing not 2 sharing, or will he take over her rent entirely while she moves out.

I do not think any lodger would happily tolerate only having ocassional use of the shower room like that. If you want a lodger you need to remodel so there is a shower room that they can always have use of

If you read earlier posts the daughter is already paying a much reduced rent.
I’m glad things seem to be resolved.

So DD works in London and lives in your flat. She does this as properties are very expensive to rent/buy, I would have thought at 34 years old and no doubt been employed for some years she must have quite a considerable amount in savings given the fact that she's paying reduced rent to live in your property! If that's the case I would be telling her to pay for a shower to be installed in her "own bathroom" ! She is being quite unreasonable to expect your OH to be up, dressed and hidden away elsewhere in the property so she can parade about wearing very little as it's obvious that's what she habitually does!

notanan2 My DP who I've been with for 10 years is not a '3rd persons weekend/holiday home'!

We've all rubbed along together - this is a recent issue which for the time being is solved.

It IS still my permanent home. It is only because I let her live there at very reduced rate that my DP and I don't spend more time there. She is not paying rent based on sharing with one person - if she was she'd be paying me 3 times more in rent!

I don't pay DP rent when living in his home (whose DP ever pays rent?) so of course he won't be paying any when he stays for longer, more frequent periods if we Brexshit. DD and I will talk about the long term when I'm next back and no doubt she will make plans to move out at some point next year.

We are lucky enough to have an ensuite shower room and a s separate bathroom. For 3 people that is plenty.

H1954 DD only got a full time job in journalism 5 years ago (she graduated 10 years ago and was a teaching assistant for a while with dire pay) She has saved but nowhere near enough for a deposit and in order to get a mortgage in London would need to be earning far in excess of her current £32K. Her's is not an unusual situation as I'm sure you're aware.

Meanwhile the situation is resolved for the time being and yes when I have the quote for the shower I will ask her to put something towards it as I don't have the available cash.

Thanks Tanith at least in the short term they are!

How about putting the rent up a bit to pay for the shower?

I'm with you Lucy, I think she's being unreasonable, she has always known it was your flat.

I'm reading this as the daughter being effectively a lodger... who has the benefit of the resident landlord not being there most of the time... as opposed to a tenant of the whole flat...
So ... while the resident landlord is in residence, then the daughter is the one that needs to be flexible as I doubt she is paying the rent equivalent for the whole flat and likely to be even paying less than a normal lodger would be... and if she was a normal lodger, she wouldn't have access to the resident landlords private ensuite bathroom for her shower...

BlueBelle is right - the goalposts have moved since the OP.

Brexit will mean that you need your flat back for you and your partner, and there will be a clash of interests as your daughter has come to see it as her home.

This is different from the quandary you presented in the first place, which was about your daughter being unreasonable about the shower.

I’m not at all unsympathetic with your actual predicament; but I think it’s disingenuous to present the situation as you originally did. I think you wanted people to support you in asking your daughter to leave (which I understand, as it must be a difficult thing to do), but did not make it clear that this was the real issue.

We can only go on what you post, and the shower situation always seemed odd to me.

There is already a handheld shower in the main bathroom but she doesn't consider it a proper shower! I can't afford the cost of putting an overhead one in there too.
could you ask her to pay to put one in. Overhead showers are not to expensive and it would solve the problem,

It seems to me that the shower in the bathroom is an ideal option - you ought to split the cost, she will benefit but since she rents the room from you, it’s reasonable to expect to have a shower in the mornings without having to pass your boyfriend in his bed. Also, it will add to the value of YOUR property.
As you spend most of your time in Paris it must benefit you to get some rent from the flat. If you rented the flat to a stranger you could not return there, if you got a lodger then S/he would expect a shower in the mornings - again without having to walk through your room.
This is not one-sided, you both benefit, so split the cost. She is much more convenient than a lodger, if you really want her out then you will have to go without the rent she pays - if you can’t even afford a shower then you can’t do without her rent can you?
Seems to me you want to have your cake and eat it.

I'm sorry I don't understand the" it's my home" comment , if your daughter is paying you rent , doesn't matter if it's under market value , its still rent
All landlords either pay a mortgage or have paid it off , but that doesn't entitle them to move into a bedroom for a couple of weeks when and if they choose
I rented at below market prices from my MIL for a few years as we were saving up our deposit, and she didn't even visit with out checking it was ok

Agree with harrigran who said I don't think of this situation as renting, it is what we used to call paying board. We used to give our mother some of our wages to help towards the running costs, in no way did it represent a portion of all the bills.

That would be the case if either of my sons, ages 30 and 35, were to move home. I would charge them a fraction of what I could get in rent from a regular renter. In any event, in reading her replies, it sounds like Lucy has presented her solution and thanked all for their input. Good luck to her and her family!

My house, my rules. The first person to get to the bathroom gets to use it first. If they need to fit around one another, the OH and the DD need to negotiate with one another, not use you as an intermediary.

DD and OH are adults. Let them sort it out.

Summerlove, I didn't notice contempt and I think the daughter has been very lucky so far with her use of the flat. Unfortunately, she now considers it to be her territory, although it belongs to her mother,

Your DD pays rent etc so really isn't it her place and when you visit that's what you are - visitors. Can the bedrooms not be swopped when you visit?

I agree with another poster that this sounds mor like a power play than about the shower.
Your daughter wants to assert that this is her home.
But actually it is yours.

I think it is unreasonable to ask your OH to be up and dressed. It is ridiculous even.
You and your daughter need to talk this out.
Maybe you don't need to put a shower in, perhaps she can adjust for the times you are there in your home.
After all she can always move out but then she can't because of the high rents in London.

I think you are helping her. If you moved or sold up she would not have a home, so it is available depending on you keeping the mortgage paid.

I do understand her POV but it is not right for you to be edged out by her making demands on you or your OH