Do we still set higher standards for women?

I see my name being mentioned in regard to the qualifications attained by Jenny Formby within her education, and in that, I apologize for not replying earlier as I have been working in the office since 07:00 this morning.

However, as has been stated Formby did gain ten O levels and three A levels on leaving her education. No one is aware, I believe, of what grades Jenny Formby achieved within those results, but it must be obvious to all that they did not enhance her opportunities in obtaining employment. In regard to that, Formby started her working life in the office of a Bookmaker before moving on to manually work as a shunter in a fuel distribution terminal.

The most salient point in Formby's working career is that from that very basic employment beginning she has progressed, mainly by way of gaining peoples confidence in elections, to achieve the most prominent and influential position in Britains near seven million person strong Labour movement by becoming its General Secretary.

It would seem that some on this thread wish "to call me out" for stating that Formby attained no educational qualifications, in which they are perfectly correct to do so. However, it has also been alleged in this thread (not for the first time) by one forum member that Jenny Formby attained at least part of her career progress by "jumping into bed" with her male workplace superior.

The above I find a disgusting remark to make against any woman especially when made by another woman on a forum whose membership is dominated by women. However, there would seem to be only one post "calling out" the forum member who made the above allegation, and none from the forum members who are calling me out for a genuine mistake.

In short, one was a genuine mistake made by a male member of this forum, while the second was a bitter totally horrendous unfounded allegation made by a female member of this forum to which no condemnation is forthcoming from those who wish to denounce the first.

I believe that the above when placed in front of any person with a neutral view on this matter, the foregoing may well appear as the condemnation of gender in preference to censure of substance in regard to the totally disgraceful allegations made by a female forum member in this thread.

Grandad The women knew that protest was futile, and they were actually told it was their patriotic duty to relinquish their jobs. Of course back then, if they protested they'd just be sacked anyway.
No comment on Jennie Formby leaving school with virtually no qualifications?

I see you posted an answer 10 seconds before my post.

Grandad is one of a minority of male GNetters. Those of us on the liberal or left part of the political spectrum tend to defend minorities, but minorities are not always right.

janipat, there is much I can agree with in your post @18:36 today. In that, I believe that many men who were called into National Service or volunteered for armed service were guaranteed their jobs by their employers should they return.

However, any protest however futile when justified is always worth the effort, and that in 1945 the nation did not witness.

That made me laugh varian.

10 O level passes at grades sufficient to support going on to pass 3 A levels, is not insignificant (regardless that we don't know her eventual grades). There would be a variety of career openings available to pursue, including those requiring further study. As she went from office work to a manual post (I'm assuming you're correct here, I haven't researched) the only assumption to be made is that she wasn't settled in what she wanted to do.
I may have skimmed posts, but didn't take it she'd slept her way up, just that she'd had an intimate relationship with someone who was in a position to aid her advancement (note, not the reason for the intimate relationship). It's what family's often do isn't it, aid their own where they can?

I’ll agree with the patronizing comments.

You’ve completely talked down to many women here granddad

janipat, what has been alleged in this thread has been that Len McCluskey in his role as General Secretary of the Unite Union assisted Jenny Formby in her career progress because she became intimately involved with him.

The above is a ridiculous statement as Jenny Formby worked in the southwest region of Unite while McCluskey was working in a Northern region in a role way below that of General Secretary.

Formby's early progression would have been by election and appointment by the lay regional committee in the Southwest region.

Through that progression, Formby became Unites national political officer by which she was attached to their central office in London. Formby and McCluskey then became partners for approximately four years I believe and during that time a son was born out of that partnership.

From her position as Unites National Political Officer, she was elected by the Labour Party National Executive Committee to the post of General Secretary of the whole Labour movement, a committee that Len McCluskey has no seat on.

The above I believe demonstrates comprehensively that McCluskey could not and did not in any way assist Formby to her top positions.

Therefore to state that Jenny Formby gained her present position by casually sleeping with her male working superiors is wrong and totally disgusting especially coming from a woman on a forum dominated by women and should be comprehensively condemned by all.

Shockingly, it is not just men who are prejudiced against women.

www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/mar/05/nine-out-of-10-people-found-to-be-biased-against-women

Summer love, can you post examples of where I have patronized and "talked down" to women in this thread rather than yourself posting sweeping generalised comments?

Grandad I think that even if Jennie Formby just scraped her results, they were still a respectable set of examination passes.
She could have gone to university but chose not to, a fair enough decision as many people did not choose that route.

Having a degree or even a PhD doesn't guarantee success, it's drive and ambition which play a part too.

I never thought I'd be defending her but I like to be fair!!

Callistemon, I have stated that I was inaccurate in stating that Formby had no qualifications on leaving her education. So, what do you want to do "get the noose out". ?

The above in no way, in my view, can detract from her very base career beginning to becoming the most influential person in Britains seven million-strong Labour Movement.

She has also been one of the strongest advocates of women's equality throughout her career.

For those interested here is a link to Formby's statement on women's rights and equality to the Labour list on international women's day 2018.

Link begins here:-

labourlist.org/2018/03/jennie-formby-we-must-do-better-for-women/

I can help if you want grandad. You made some very sweeping statements about the lack of campaigns for womens rights in the last 50 years or so. I pointed out the numerous campaigns run by women for women. There was another one this morning as it happens on the today programme, a woman who has campaigned ceaselessly, against considerable opposition, to expose the culture of sexual harassment at Save the Children. To tell women that nothing has happened in the field of womens rights when you do not know as much about it as the women on this thread is patronising. It's ok to admit you dont know things, there are many many subjects I know very little about.

It's ok, Grandad!!

She is obviously a very bright and ambitious woman.

Actually, leaving school with no qualifications at all does not preclude someone reaching the top either, but she did do well at school.

No, I don't want to get the noose out but accuracy is important - you're usually accurate!

I agree with Grandad1943 that implying that Jenny Formby only achieved her success by sleeping with a man, is a horrible thing to say by a woman against another woman.

Do any of those who have talked about womens rights know why there isn't a feminism forum on GN. Is there just not enough interest?

Many thanks Ilovecheese for condemning the post(s) that indicated Jenny Formby achieved her career accomplishments by "casually jumping into bed" with her male workplace superiors.

It is a great pity that more forum members have not joined you in that condemnation especially when Formby has been a tremendous supporter of women's rights, justice and equality throughout her working life.

I believe the above demonstrates that in the view of a number of forum members condemnation of gender is placed above condemnation of substance in posts.

I will repost the link to Formby speaking on women's equality.
Link begins here:- labourlist.org/2018/03/jennie-formby-we-must-do-better-for-women/

Of course I condemn the remarks about Jennie Formby and how she only managed to progress through sleeping with a man but sadly there are many on GN who won't. Don't have time to write more off out to sing and protest about the patriachy with lots of other women.

Well said trisher, as you have stated there are many on Gransnet that will in no way support a woman who in her career has risen to the very top in an environment totally dominated by men in her early employment.

A woman who has "walked the walk" rather than "talk the talk"

Unsurprisingly for this forum, that lack of support has been demonstrated on a thread entitled "Do we still set higher standards for women"

Anyway, I am off to the office where there are also women who have to physically challenge an often male-dominated environment on a daily bases in the course of their work by way of going into other companies.

I like this little factoid just remember that everything Fred Astaire did, Ginger Rodgers did backwards and wearing high heals

Are you saying you are supportive of womens rights grandad, because you have spent quite a lot of time saying we have achieved nothing. It's strange that women on this thread dont find that particularly supportive.

Galaxy in regard to your post @10:21 today I feel that I have always been very supportive of women's rights and equality issues. What I have been critical of is that women themselves have not brought the matter more to the fore than has been achieved over many decades.

By example to the above, we all witnessed just last year how the campaign for Britain to remain within the European Union brought more than a million people onto the streets of London in one demonstration.

In the above, women's equality is a much more long-standing issue that belongs at the heart of how our nation views and treats entrenched attitudes and Prejudice. However, never have we seen such demonstrations as sited above on the streets of our cities in support of women's Equality. That states, I feel, that the campaign over many years has not been organised in such a way as to maximise to the effect it should have.

Galaxy, you have asked of me several questions in this thread which I hope you feel I have answered in a comprehensive manner, if not always in agreement with yourself. Therefore can I ask a direct question of you which I hope you will respond to in the same manner as I have?

The above question being, do you condemn the post and forum member who has inferred in this thread and many others that Jenny Formby gained her career promotions to the very top of the Labour movement by way of "jumping into bed" with her male workplace superiors?

I have placed in this thread all the facts in regard to Formby's career, and they demonstrate very comprehensively, I believe, that the allegations that forum member has made are entirely false.

By the way Galaxy, I wish to thank you for the question you asked of me today. I am with others in our Somerset office, but as from Monday due to the coronavirus outbreak, many of the Administration staff will be working from home. There is a very sad and worried atmosphere here today with computers etc being moved out. At least your post has taken my mind off of all that along with two others I have shown this thread too.

We all very much respect your posts, tenacity and "hang in there style". Many thanks.

Grandad I'm not meaning to goad or anything, but while I respect your claim that you have always been supportive of women's rights and equality issues, I sometimes feel you are not always supportive of women. By which I mean that your criticism of women's failure to bring matters more to the fore, seems not to understand that the social pressures on women, particularly in their caring roles, has meant it is not always so easy to get organised in the same way as men. For example think back to the criticism the Greenham Common demonstrators received. If they went and left their children at home they were bad mothers, if they took young children with them they were bad mothers. The losing of their jobs after the 2nd World War was told to women as their patriotic duty. Who after 6 years of war would want to be declared unpatriotic? Especially as when they had been conscripted to work in the factories etc that too was their patriotic duty. It really shouldn't be a case of whoever shouts loudest is right and gets what they want. Surely justice should be based on right not might?