Binders. The world has gone mad.

They're not taking teenage trans people into a back room and measuring 'em up.

No they're not even taking that much responsibility are they? They're just dishing them out on behalf of someone else. They've still got dirt on their hands though.

For the umpteenth time. They just accept delivery to the shop and hand them out. Packaged. No profit to Lush.

They're not taking teenage trans people into a back room and measuring 'em up.

I suggested you might be Pro Lush because you keep defending them even though they are not professionally trained or vetted in order to give out these binders, Trisher.

Violetsky, I am amazed at the amount of synthetic fragrances listed in black with other synthetic ingredients in Lush products while the natural ones are listed in green. (I am a bit gutted as I bought from there for years thinking that everything was natural) I am not sure now what I was buying into but it wasn't what I thought. They discontinued my favourite products in July 2020 and so I will not find it too hard to avoid them. I am happier using more earth friendly products now and less toxic chemicals. foodbabe.com/lush-bath-bombs-not-think/

“In the real world that happens”-and some adults support it.

Yes, but that problem won't be solved by expecting women to bear the brunt of male failings yet again.

I like Lush. I'm allergic to so much bath stuff. I need to try their shampoo and conditioner bars. So much less waste

Doodledog

Sorry - pronouns askew, ironically.

Boys should be educated into not 'pressing' girls into having sex, and we shouldn't implicitly encourage girls to bind their breasts as a means of repelling boys.

Of course we shouldn't unfortunately in the real world it happens.

OnwardandUpward

You're very Pro LUSH aren't you Trisher...

Could you explain why you are so hellbent on defending LUSH giving out binders rather than a kid going to someone trained and safeguarded for a binder?

"Amateurs supplying binders to people without any safety checks is not admirable", so well put Rosie51

Why am I pro-Lush? I've posted a link where binders are free, more use at undermining their trade than any of the posts on this thread I think.

You're very Pro LUSH aren't you Trisher...

Could you explain why you are so hellbent on defending LUSH giving out binders rather than a kid going to someone trained and safeguarded for a binder?

"Amateurs supplying binders to people without any safety checks is not admirable", so well put Rosie51

trisher

Mollygo Are these the questions you mean?
Do you think it acceptable that something you admit can cause damage, even if it is potentially reversible should be promoted and supplied to underage children by a soap firm?
Why do you always drag Nazis into your posts? It seems as if you can’t back up your claims with anything more present day.

Why is your name a common noun. Was it a spelling mistake like Pollygo or did you think it would make you stand out?

Well 1. I've given a link where they are free-let's spread it!
2. There is a comprehensive answer on this thread
3. No idea what you are talking about.

The first question required a yes or no answer, not a link.

*I've answered every question you've put to me trisher but you won't answer my questions. I wonder why?*]
That's just par for the course on these threads, though. Our questions are DEMANDS, but if we don't answer immediately our silence is taken as assent.

Well 1. I've given a link where they are free-let's spread it!
I'd ask everyone not to share trisher's link. Amateurs supplying binders to people without any safety checks is not admirable.
I'd also point out your link states that binders are only to be claimed by ftm transitioners, so they're not interested in girls who only want to avoid the male gaze.

I've answered every question you've put to me trisher but you won't answer my questions. I wonder why? Especially those that reiterate that I'm happy for girls to be provided with free binders provided they are dispensed by qualified professionals who will fit them and provide appropriate guidance and why do you not want this pathway? What advantage is there in doing this behind their parents' backs? If parents objected then Gillick competency would come into play.

Sorry - pronouns askew, ironically.

Boys should be educated into not 'pressing' girls into having sex, and we shouldn't implicitly encourage girls to bind their breasts as a means of repelling boys.

Mollygo Are these the questions you mean?
Do you think it acceptable that something you admit can cause damage, even if it is potentially reversible should be promoted and supplied to underage children by a soap firm?
Why do you always drag Nazis into your posts? It seems as if you can’t back up your claims with anything more present day.

Why is your name a common noun. Was it a spelling mistake like Pollygo or did you think it would make you stand out?

Well 1. I've given a link where they are free-let's spread it!
2. There is a comprehensive answer on this thread
3. No idea what you are talking about.

As Iam64 said upthread, that is a possibility; but IMO if that is the case, the resources should be going into educating boys to stop 'pressing' girls into sex, rather than implicitly encouraging them to disguise their growing bodies as a means of repelling them. You know, take some of the responsibility for the problem off women/girls, and let the men/boys step up.

Of course not all girls are pressed into sex nor do all girls wear or even want to wear binders. Some of them are, some of them do.
The question of gender and sexuality is interesting. Although for some girls wearing a binder may be a first step to a gender change I think for others it may be linked to sexuality and a girls's need to conceal her body because she feels the signals it gives out to boys do not match her personal level of sexual maturity and so she binds.
It's as much protection as the condom is.

oops should have refreshed after I took a phone call, the points have been made.

If wearing a binder would make her happier than having sexual intercourse using a condom why should she have to pay for her binder whilst the boy pressing her to have sex with him gets his condom for free?
You seem obsessed with the fact that condoms may be accessed for free, but many will be buying their supplies themselves, does that make a difference to you? I would be happy to provide free binders to girls that want them as long as they were dispensed ie fitted and all advice given, by a qualified professional. Why are you so against any qualified supervision? Surely you don't want girls harming themselves by ill-fitting garments worn inappropriately?

As for the boy pressing her to have sex with him gets his condom for free .......well there are so many assumptions in there......hopefully it would be a mutual decision.....girls can initiate sex...... he may have purchased his condoms from a retail outlet..... she may be providing the free condom......but you carry on.

If wearing a binder would make her happier than having sexual intercourse using a binder whilst the boy pressing her to have sex with him gets his condom for free (Trisha at 18.34 20.11.21)

So many stereotypical views expressed here. Yes some boys pressurise girls into having sex but how does wearing a binder impact on that.

Where do trans issues fit? Is the suggestion that some girls bind to avoid sexual harassment? I could be persuaded by that. It also fits with reports I’ve read of teenage girls who are so uncomfortable with their changing bodies, they bind as one way of putting boys off. It brings us to the pressures adolescent boys and girls are under, exacerbated by the pornography thst is all too often their early introduction to sex

According to some posters, no answers means the person questioned has no valid answer. I think I’ll settle for that.

wouldn't the very notion of a transwoman being a lesbian be called into question?

Well, for a start, not all girls are 'pressed into' sex. They do have agency, and even though some are exploited (as are some boys) that is not necessarily the case.

I disagree that both condoms and binders are about sexuality. Trans issues are not about sexuality. If that were the case, wouldn't the very notion of a transwoman being a lesbian would be called into question?

Sexuality is about who we are attracted to, not about which sex we want to be, or with which gender we identify. On the same lines, sexual norms are nothing to do with gender identity either. They are to do with what sexual behaviour is broadly considered 'acceptable' and what is not.

Doodledog

*Could you expand on that last paragraph which is far too deep for a simple mind like mine to understand.*
Did you forget 'please?' Ok, but I think most people probably got it.

Condoms and binders are not comparable. You dragged in the analogy, but it is fatally flawed. Anyone taking the time to refute or prove the link between them will be unable to do so, as they are not the same thing. Their post would therefore be filled with inaccuracies and failed comparisons/contrasts.

You, and others who enjoy sending us down blind alleys to detract from the fact that you refuse to answer the questions that you find difficult, would then pounce in these failures, and poke holes in them, wasting even more time and not moving the debate on at all.

You didn't answer if a girl is happier having sex that's OK, but if she is happier wearing a binder that doesn't matter????
Which girl is this? How am I supposed to answer that? And nobody has said or suggested that the very young having sex is ok. Absolutely no-one.

The fact that children can get their hands on condoms is one thing. The fact that Lush and Genderswap are allowing children to get their hands on binders is another. The two things are not connected, so a girl being happy to have sex has bog all to do with whether she is happy to wear a binder.

Incidentally, your comment uses 'happier', which suggests that it is an 'either/or' situation for the same girl, in which case the poor kid has serious problems that need sensitive and intensive counselling, which will not be solved by commercial companies who are, directly or indirectly, using her situation for profit.

But I think they are comparable in many aspects. You are free to disagree with that by all means but not giving reasons undermines that statement.
They are both involved in the sexual life of people.
They both are used by young people in pursuit of their sexual identity.
They both are indicators of the acceptable sexual norms of our society.
It may suit you not to see the connections but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

The fact that children can get their hands on condoms Well actually they are given condoms, they don't steal or aquire them in some way. They are freely available and as you said using them is preferable to pregnancy.

Why is it a blind alley to discuss the sexual norms of the day? Isn't that what this whole discussion is about?

I of course meant girl in an abstract sense but actually if you want to make it one girl why not? If wearing a binder would make her happier than having sexual intercourse using a condom why should she have to pay for her binder whilst the boy pressing her to have sex with him gets his condom for free?

Could you expand on that last paragraph which is far too deep for a simple mind like mine to understand.
Did you forget 'please?' Ok, but I think most people probably got it.

Condoms and binders are not comparable. You dragged in the analogy, but it is fatally flawed. Anyone taking the time to refute or prove the link between them will be unable to do so, as they are not the same thing. Their post would therefore be filled with inaccuracies and failed comparisons/contrasts.

You, and others who enjoy sending us down blind alleys to detract from the fact that you refuse to answer the questions that you find difficult, would then pounce in these failures, and poke holes in them, wasting even more time and not moving the debate on at all.

You didn't answer if a girl is happier having sex that's OK, but if she is happier wearing a binder that doesn't matter????
Which girl is this? How am I supposed to answer that? And nobody has said or suggested that the very young having sex is ok. Absolutely no-one.

The fact that children can get their hands on condoms is one thing. The fact that Lush and Genderswap are allowing children to get their hands on binders is another. The two things are not connected, so a girl being happy to have sex has bog all to do with whether she is happy to wear a binder.

Incidentally, your comment uses 'happier', which suggests that it is an 'either/or' situation for the same girl, in which case the poor kid has serious problems that need sensitive and intensive counselling, which will not be solved by commercial companies who are, directly or indirectly, using her situation for profit.