AIBU to think the NHS is already dead

DaisyAnneReturns

Would you be happy to loose "free at the point of use", or does something else define the NHS for you?

Perhaps. Possibly a small payment for a GP consultation? My daughter is a GP in New Zealand, and although they have state funded health care, everyone has to pay between 50 and 100 dollars to consult a GP. That’s between £25 and £50. Only children under fourteen get free consultations. No one else is exempt, those on pensions or benefits, everyone pays. Just not young children.
I would think that amount too high though.

I rang the GP surgery this morning at 10am about a concern. Lovely receptionist said doctor will ring back. GP rang 2pm. Prescribed 2 items, on line to our pharmacy down below us and emailed an urgent request to the District Nursing team. I collected the prescription at 3:30pm. The DN rang at 4:30pm. A nurse will be along in a couple of hours to administer the necessary.

We are so relieved and grateful. We worried a situation may get worse over the weekend and what we are dealing with at present is stressful enough.

Himself encouraged me to ring the surgery back to say a big thank you to all concerned.

When the NHS does well, it does efficiently and excellently.

I for one don’t think the NHS is on its last legs. Far from it.

kittylester

The NHS was a very different thing when it began. Things change! It shouldn't be a sacred cow that is still expected to stay the same.

The NHS is, though, alive and well in my world.

I don't think anyone is saying it should be the same. It couldn't be with all the advances, could it.

But the thing that was different was "free at the point of need". It meant dustman and Duke got what they need, we had a fit workforce, and no one goes bankrupt because of medical fees. I simply wonder how many are prepared to let that go?

maddyone

DaisyAnneReturns

Would you be happy to loose "free at the point of use", or does something else define the NHS for you?

Perhaps. Possibly a small payment for a GP consultation? My daughter is a GP in New Zealand, and although they have state funded health care, everyone has to pay between 50 and 100 dollars to consult a GP. That’s between £25 and £50. Only children under fourteen get free consultations. No one else is exempt, those on pensions or benefits, everyone pays. Just not young children.
I would think that amount too high though.

For some people, even £5 could make them think twice about going to the doctors.

Oreo

Jaxjacky

I agrée there is a significant lack of NHS Dentists. Free eye tests stopped for all in 1989, but are still free now for a significant number of people. As far as I know, from friends, hearing tests and aids are still free.
From my experience, to date, the vast majority of care is free. Different from when we lived in France a few years ago where we paid for GP visits, prescriptions and an ambulance.
Perhaps it’s time the UK moved to another model, free for those who can’t afford it, fraught with its own issues.
So, today 4th August 2023 I think you ABU.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Yes OP YABU
The NHS is not dead or near dead at all.

Deep thinking and analysis there Oreo.

I do think it is struggling, through lack of funding etc, however I would certainly not describe it as dead.

I’ve used it quite a lot lately and it has been brilliant. I very much hope it isn’t dead as I await an operation!!

It was very much not dead when I was ill back in March - 3 weeks of excellent care in hospital.

As for contracted-out services, an ex colleague had both his really bad cataracts done at a specialist ‘private’ clinic - for free. The fact that they were so bad was nothing to do with the NHS - he just hadn’t bothered to see an optician let alone a GP, for many years,

DAR you asked a question in your OP, you’ve had answers, your original query was not about a ‘what if’ in the future.
Perhaps you expected more agreement with your opening stance and seem reluctant to accept the opinion of others, why ask for their views if you’re not listening?

henetha

I think you are being pessimistic, Daisyann.

I hope that's what it is henetha. Unfortunately, that thought does not stop the right rejecting the idea of the state running anything.

It's interesting to see how many think they will be able to afford either paying for their treatment or getting and affording insurance in old age.

When my husband was diagnosed with cancer a few years ago, he received his radiotherapy at a private hospital under the NHS as the NHS hospital was overloaded. He had excellent care from the NHS throughout.

A few years ago I was at a hospital orthopaedics clinic. There was a female dr there from Australia who was here for a couple of years getting additional experience. I asked her about the oz medical world. She told me she was astonished at what we could get done here for free. She said in Australia if you wanted all this treatment done over and above real illness then you would have to pay for it. She said no wonder the nhs is in a mess as too much is expected for too little money from the public. Who knows whether her take on it was fair but personally I think her opinion was pretty accurate.

Urmstongran

I rang the GP surgery this morning at 10am about a concern. Lovely receptionist said doctor will ring back. GP rang 2pm. Prescribed 2 items, on line to our pharmacy down below us and emailed an urgent request to the District Nursing team. I collected the prescription at 3:30pm. The DN rang at 4:30pm. A nurse will be along in a couple of hours to administer the necessary.

We are so relieved and grateful. We worried a situation may get worse over the weekend and what we are dealing with at present is stressful enough.

Himself encouraged me to ring the surgery back to say a big thank you to all concerned.

When the NHS does well, it does efficiently and excellently.

I for one don’t think the NHS is on its last legs. Far from it.

The NHS staff certainly do well. I wonder how quick you would be to ring if you knew you were responsible for direct payment for all this?

I don't doubt the staff. It's the government attitude that worries me.

DaisyAnneReturns

Oreo

Jaxjacky

I agrée there is a significant lack of NHS Dentists. Free eye tests stopped for all in 1989, but are still free now for a significant number of people. As far as I know, from friends, hearing tests and aids are still free.
From my experience, to date, the vast majority of care is free. Different from when we lived in France a few years ago where we paid for GP visits, prescriptions and an ambulance.
Perhaps it’s time the UK moved to another model, free for those who can’t afford it, fraught with its own issues.
So, today 4th August 2023 I think you ABU.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Yes OP YABU
The NHS is not dead or near dead at all.

Deep thinking and analysis there Oreo.

Am guessing you really don’t like being told YABU but you asked the question so I told you.

Witzend

It was very much not dead when I was ill back in March - 3 weeks of excellent care in hospital.

As for contracted-out services, an ex colleague had both his really bad cataracts done at a specialist ‘private’ clinic - for free. The fact that they were so bad was nothing to do with the NHS - he just hadn’t bothered to see an optician let alone a GP, for many years,

I don't doubt the care but what if you had to pay for it?

Urmstongran

I rang the GP surgery this morning at 10am about a concern. Lovely receptionist said doctor will ring back. GP rang 2pm. Prescribed 2 items, on line to our pharmacy down below us and emailed an urgent request to the District Nursing team. I collected the prescription at 3:30pm. The DN rang at 4:30pm. A nurse will be along in a couple of hours to administer the necessary.

We are so relieved and grateful. We worried a situation may get worse over the weekend and what we are dealing with at present is stressful enough.

Himself encouraged me to ring the surgery back to say a big thank you to all concerned.

When the NHS does well, it does efficiently and excellently.

I for one don’t think the NHS is on its last legs. Far from it.

We had a situation similar to that recently Urmstongran and I emailed our thanks to GP who was surprised but pleased when she emailed back.

Some people are in life or death situations and have no choice but to contact the NHS and are pleased to be able to do so. I'm sure those people don't give a thought as to who is responsible for payment when a loved one is in trouble. I don't know where we'd be without the NHS.

Kate1949

Some people are in life or death situations and have no choice but to contact the NHS and are pleased to be able to do so. I'm sure those people don't give a thought as to who is responsible for payment when a loved one is in trouble. I don't know where we'd be without the NHS.

Again, I don't doubt the staff or the care they give. It sounds as if you feel you would be happy and able to pay if "free at the point of need", the thing that makes it the National Health Service the National Health Service, disappeared.

The thing that makes the National Health Service a health service unlike any other, is the fact that it is free at the point of need.

It seems many of you do not mind losing that and feel you'll be able to afford to pay upfront or get insurance in your older years. That certainly answers the question I asked. Thank you.

A few members of my family have been in life or death situations, my brother being the last one only two years ago. The NHS saved him. His family would obviously have done anything to save him. I would pay, assuming I could, to save a family member. Of course there are problems. Someone I know who has a serious problem can't get a GP appointment.

DaisyAnneReturns

Witzend

It was very much not dead when I was ill back in March - 3 weeks of excellent care in hospital.

As for contracted-out services, an ex colleague had both his really bad cataracts done at a specialist ‘private’ clinic - for free. The fact that they were so bad was nothing to do with the NHS - he just hadn’t bothered to see an optician let alone a GP, for many years,

I don't doubt the care but what if you had to pay for it?

We do pay for it. Do you think its free. Yes free at the point of need, as it always was and always will be. No sign of anything else, and as others have said, care is combined. We have a brilliant private /NHS clinic, with a very good out of hours service. Yes it's free at point of need.

Of course you would want to pay Kate. I imagine we all would.

But if we sleepwalk into a situation where the "free at the point of need" reason for the birth of the NHS, disappears, we would become like the USA where in 2022 medical debt was the number one reason for people filing for bankruptcy.

Yes there will have to be changes and changes, as I have said, can be for the good. But free at the point of need is the NHS and that is the government's commitment to the people that I think is dying.

DaisyAnneReturns

The thing that makes the National Health Service a health service unlike any other, is the fact that it is free at the point of need.

It seems many of you do not mind losing that and feel you'll be able to afford to pay upfront or get insurance in your older years. That certainly answers the question I asked. Thank you.

How you work that out is anyones guess🤣
That isn’t the case at all if you read all the posts on this thread.It seems it’s what you want it to be as you don’t like the answers given.

DaisyAnneReturns

The difference between the NHS and all other systems was the promise of "free at the point of need". This meant everybody got the same - they got what they needed at the time that they needed it.

Now we have private dentistry, private optical care, private hearing care, and soon private scanning clinics, private GPs, etc.

I don't doubt you may be able to use these places, as an "NHS" patient if you're poor, or that there will be special "NHS" clinics available. But you will be limited as you already are in the currently privatised areas, by the standard amount that the NHS/goverment will pay and which treatments they will cover.

To me means the death of the NHS.

Not sure what other systems you mean, American I suppose. My family in Germany get free at point of need. Yes they pay insurance, so do we. Unfortunately some bright spark decided to use ours with general taxation instead of health and social care. Germans also, from beginning work, pay into a social care fund, even the young get old. No one there loses out, as there is state insurance too, paid even if on benefits. Only ones who have to pay, are those without a German health card, although again emergency care free at need. They also involve private care providers. Does good to see how other countries work, they have more beds per population, but are also struggling to get staff, and some waits are as long as ours. No our NHS is not dead,struggling, but not and won't be gone.

Freya5

DaisyAnneReturns

Witzend

It was very much not dead when I was ill back in March - 3 weeks of excellent care in hospital.

As for contracted-out services, an ex colleague had both his really bad cataracts done at a specialist ‘private’ clinic - for free. The fact that they were so bad was nothing to do with the NHS - he just hadn’t bothered to see an optician let alone a GP, for many years,

I don't doubt the care but what if you had to pay for it?

We do pay for it. Do you think its free. Yes free at the point of need, as it always was and always will be. No sign of anything else, and as others have said, care is combined. We have a brilliant private /NHS clinic, with a very good out of hours service. Yes it's free at point of need.

No Freya, nowhere have I suggested that I think it is free. Nowhere have I suggested that the majority of medical services are not currently free at the point of need.

You say that is what it always will be. It seems the country could be gaslighted once again and by the same people who did it to them once before.

Perhaps, before anyone votes in the next election, they should check what health insurance would cost for them and their family - or if it would even be available to them.

The right do not believe in anything where progressive taxation provides equality of opportunity - even health. They do not believe in a "free at the point of need" health service for all.

Freya, after the second World War the allies - mainly Britain -put in place a National Health style service in Germany. It is quite likely we had learned a few tweaks by then or that Germany added them.

There is no reason why we shouldn't look at other countries. What we need to ensure is that it is still free at the point of need. That is what makes it the National Health Service.