Trans Teacher

it is not always possible to tell if there is meat in a dish, but most decent people wouldn't try to pass off a vegetable quiche as vegetarian if the pastry contained lard.

The reasoning is very similar - not everyone is comfortable with eating meat products, and there are those for whom it would be a direct contravention of religious obligations.

The fact that people might not know without analysing the ingredients is really not the point, just as the fact that nobody might know they were being examined by a man without seeing under his skirt is a spurious and disingenuous argument that shows a distinct lack of respect for the agency of others.

Oh and a bit of gas lighting by misrepresenting something she's said is fine Coming from you that is actually comical grin. What (precisely, please) have you seen on this thread that you consider to be gaslighting? Do you actually understand the concept?

And there you have it. It can't possibly be happening to you. You don't understand what is going on any way. Classic gaslighting

People often gaslight because being right allows them to validate themselves. When gaslighters feel threatened, they need you to believe and support their version of events in order to maintain their sense of power and control
Gaslighting can also happen when someone believes their narrative is more valid than someone else’s Persuading someone else to question their own reality, then, can leave them with a sense of superiority

But it's there consider what you said about me and trouser wearing. How you misrepresented what actually happened. Fortunately I'm not as stupid or as vulnerable as you seem to think.

I don't see you as vulnerable or stupid.

What did I say about you and trouser wearing? The topic went on over so many pages, and was so tedious that I really don't remember. If I said something inaccurate it was not because of gaslighting, which has to be deliberate, it would be because I got it wrong. What was it?

It is possible to contradict someone without gaslighting them, you know.

Doodledog

it is not always possible to tell if there is meat in a dish, but most decent people wouldn't try to pass off a vegetable quiche as vegetarian if the pastry contained lard.

The reasoning is very similar - not everyone is comfortable with eating meat products, and there are those for whom it would be a direct contravention of religious obligations.

The fact that people might not know without analysing the ingredients is really not the point, just as the fact that nobody might know they were being examined by a man without seeing under his skirt is a spurious and disingenuous argument that shows a distinct lack of respect for the agency of others.

OMG now we are drawing parallels between food and human beings. And I was told introducing dyslexia wasn't allowed!!

Still no one has explained to me why there are more dyslexics and more autistic children and if this was caused by schools adopting positive attitudes to those children
Because if that isn't the case how can more transchildren be attributed to more trans-friendly schools?

Doodledog

I don't see you as vulnerable or stupid.

What did I say about you and trouser wearing? The topic went on over so many pages, and was so tedious that I really don't remember. If I said something inaccurate it was not because of gaslighting, which has to be deliberate, it would be because I got it wrong. What was it?

It is possible to contradict someone without gaslighting them, you know.

Oh it was quite deliberate. It was an attempt to denigrate me as usual. But I realise that you do it so often you probably don't remember doing it.

Contradiction requires either acknowledging or quoting something which has actually been said, not rehashing things simply to suit you own perceptions that's when the gaslighting comes in.
.

I cannot explain either, but I think the general consensus is that Dyslexics were always there, and either 'masked', or sunk in the systems of the time, and there are various explanations for the rise in the numbers of autistic people, including paternal age, maternal stress and others. I have even seen a theory about cocaine use. Take your pick, but I think the jury is still out.

In any case, I don't see the link between Dyslexia and Autism and 'transchildren'. Is there one?

Oh it was quite deliberate. It was an attempt to denigrate me as usual. But I realise that you do it so often you probably don't remember doing it.

Nice try. Are you trying to get me to disbelieve my own reality? And are you telling me the motives for something you can't substantiate?

My opinion is the apparent increase in the prevalence of conditions like dyslexia, autism, ADHD, and being transgender is influenced by a combination of factors, including increased awareness, changes in diagnostic criteria, sociocultural changes, genetics, and better data collection.

Those who have Dyslexia were simply known as bad readers, those with ADHD were badly behaved, autism were those who presented as a bit odd and trans were those suffering in silence or trying to be how they identified behind closed doors

I think that there is a move towards seeing neurotypicality as a misnomer, as most of us have ways in which we are 'wired differently', so there is no real 'norm'. Society is structured around assumptions of 'normality', and as few people fit them, everyone is stressed and struggling one way or another to fit in.

All the things you mention are relevant, theexwife, but I don't know what, if anything, causes the conditions, or whether they are not conditions at all, but just part of life's complexity.

Actually if you talk to anyone who is currently working with children with autism you will not go 5 minutes without someone expressing concern about numbers and what is going on. Some of it is of course we are better at identifying autism but the increase in talked about all the time.

Totally agree with Doodledog, we are all wired differently. I think that some people just want or need a label to define them.

I don't understand why adults will look for that label in later life, they are who they are, and the label changes nothing except instead of saying 'This is how I am' they now say this or that is due to my autism, ADHD etc.

Dyslexics don't demand that we change the structure of the English Language though to fit around their learning disability.

Whereas some in the transgender community want to turn science and biology on its head to accommodate their belief - and censor anyone who doesn't agree with them.

Whatever someone wants to be known as is fine by me, it doesn’t affect me and if it pleases them then why not?

Dickens

Dyslexics don't demand that we change the structure of the English Language though to fit around their learning disability.

Whereas some in the transgender community want to turn science and biology on its head to accommodate their belief - and censor anyone who doesn't agree with them.

This is the crux of the matter for me. Dyslexics have no impact on anyone else, and make no demands on others. They don't picket libraries or reading groups, screaming at others for meeting without them. It is a totally false equivalence, and I really don't want to get involved in what will end up being a string of 'Gotcha's when I put a foot wrong.

FWIW, I can understand people wanting a diagnosis ion something in later life. It may not change anything, and yes, we are who we are, but if someone has gone through life being called lazy and disorganised and assuming that to be true, it must come as a relief to be told that actually they have ADD. Whether that matters on a practical level or not, it can only be a boost to their self-esteem. As with so many services, however, the numerous cutbacks make that diagnosis difficult for many people.

Actually I think the equivalence is that we look back at what happened to children with autism with horror in some cases, I think the same will happen with children who dont follow 'gender' rules, it already has to some extent, the use of puberty blockers and surgery are beginning to be seen jn the same light as some of the more outlandish strategies that were used with regard to autism.

Galaxy surgery has never been used for children in the UK. The use of puberty blockers will be granted if the child becomes part of a research study. Research will of course be valuable, but no research programme should involve pressure to take part, especially not on children.
Social transitioning is not to be supported, but quite how parents cope with that isn't explained.

Many people with difficulties have been treated appallingly,

Galaxy

Actually if you talk to anyone who is currently working with children with autism you will not go 5 minutes without someone expressing concern about numbers and what is going on. Some of it is of course we are better at identifying autism but the increase in talked about all the time.

Of course it is talked about but I doubt if anyone is linking the increase to some schools becoming Autism friendly, or to the increased visibility of autistic people, or blaming autistic people for asking that they receive fair treatment.

Why are we equating autism and bonkers parents thinking drinking bleach or some nonsense will cure it... with treatment for gender dysphoria?

There is no cure for autism

Also it doesn't need curing thank you

Transwomen need their own trans spaces which I won't encroach on unless invited.

And it’s their job to fight for those trans spaces, not to decide they’re entitled to use female spaces. Put up a petition for trans spaces that doesn’t involve removing or adapting female spaces and I’ll sign.

It’s sad but true that the behaviour of some males (TIM or TW) or TRA has brought this about.
We are constantly told that TW have been using female spaces unnoticed for ages.
Those TW determined to be noticed are to blame for the need for male free spaces.

I am aware that surgery isnt happening in the UK, it is in America though and those children count as well. I am also well aware of the situation with puberty blockers.
But both of these were seen as appropriate and now people are rapidly moving away from them. Pretty much everything that questions were raised about is now seen as not the way y go. So I am all for questioning. It's much better than mantras.

VioletSky

Why are we equating autism and bonkers parents thinking drinking bleach or some nonsense will cure it... with treatment for gender dysphoria?

There is no cure for autism

Also it doesn't need curing thank you

It was Glorianny who brought it up. I knew it would end up as a deviation with arguments over the finer points, and here we are.

Well Gender dysphoria doesn't need a cure either

And we already know there isn't one, only gender affirming treatment

Can we stop treating people who are different as if they somehow wrong and abnormal. Thanks

No we dont know that. There has been no long term studies that's the problem. And the approach for children is not gender affirming at the moment the NHS has taken a different approach.

VioletSky

Well Gender dysphoria doesn't need a cure either

And we already know there isn't one, only gender affirming treatment

Can we stop treating people who are different as if they somehow wrong and abnormal. Thanks

I don't. And I very much doubt that anyone else on this thread does so either.

Nobody is saying there is, or should be a cure for anything. For the 999867th time - a teacher in a skirt is part of a larger picture, and seen in the context mentioned so often before some of us see it as troubling. Just for once, could that please be addressed, instead of these diversions into irrelevant areas?

Gender affirming treatment is not considered to be helpful - not just by people on here, but by experts in the field. Others know more about that than I do, but the advice is for adults not to affirm.

I have never thought medicalising children was a good plan, so if you have concerns about cures you need to aim your annoyance at those who did.