Trans Teacher

Just saying something isn't so is not engaging with it, VS. I have explained why I think the context is concerning - there is a chance that the cumulative effect of mixed messages about 'gender' and even sex that children will lose sight of what it means to be male or female, and that could have consequences for safeguarding. You just saying 'no it doesn't' is not an argument, is it?

VioletSky

It was actually humour based on previous comments but...

It obviously flew right over a few heads

It was actually humour based on previous comments but...

Yeah, sure. 😏

Mollygo

I do not police toilets, not my job, and the people who apparently think it is their job haven't got an inkling who is actually using the toilet and are just abusing butch lesbians and masculine appearing women by mistake.

I just do my business and leave... I have never considered a toilet or a changing room a "safe space" so I always use separate secure cubicles and take responsibility for my own self

Take responsibility for my own self thats a really interesting phrase.

It is indeed. But a male teacher wearing one in the context of primary schools having drag queens reading stories and illustrations of men in bondage gear in library books etc etc puts the skirt into a different context that is different from the norm, which is really all most people are saying
Drag queens are part of society. They appear on TV. A child may know someone who is a drag queen. They have connections with pantomime dames something children have been deliberately exposed to for years, apparently without harm. A touring company brought a pantomime to our school every winter. There was always a dame in it.
Bondage gear is seen in many shop windows, is also seen on TV.
Children inhabit the real world, a primary school is not a place which is separate to the wider community. It is an integral part of that community where children learn about what happens in the world. They are not shut up like nuns or monks.

Indeed bondage gear what a laugh. Except of course it isnt. As far as I remember the last childcare establishment that thought that had to apologise and remove the book.

I have never considered a toilet or a changing room a "safe space" so I always use separate secure cubicles and take responsibility for my own self some people expect that a young girl should be able to go into a supermarket toilet area and be safe, not sexually abused by a transwoman.

metro.co.uk/2019/03/16/transgender-woman-18-sexually-assaulted-girl-10-morrisons-toilet-8914577/#:~:text=A%20transgender%20woman%20threatened%20to,toilets%20of%20a%20Morrison%27s%20supermarket.

Still, not to worry eh?

Doodledog

Syracute

Doodledog :
Can you please cite these so called experts that say gender affirming treatment is not helpful ? I have been following a few transgender people on Tik Tok where they talk about their experiences. It is very enlightening. It does very much help them. You like to write a lot but with little fact. There was recently a family in Britain that lost their daughter by suicide because of the over long wait list for gender affirming treatment. Thanks to VioletSky for being a voice of kindness and reason.

Someone with more knowledge than I have can answer that, if that's ok? As I said in my post, I am not best placed to know names etc. I would be reduced to googling, which obviously you could do yourself, so there would be no point .

It is NOT ok to proclaim there is no evidence that gender affirming treatment doesn’t help with no facts. I personally have read many articles about people that have done this . I have watched transgender people talk about what it is like on Tik Tok. It’s clear it does help from what I read and heard from those that have had it done. It’s shameful to come hear with a pretense of knowledge yet NO facts.

I have to galaxy

I am a woman after all and I know of many times I am at risk

Until we get rid of societies abusive element

Read the cass report with regard to gender affirming treatment for children and current NHS guidelines for young people.

This idea that trans women are inherently dangerous because of the actions of one person claiming to be trans is abhorrent propaganda used by transphobic people to spread fear and hatred

I dont think transwomen are dangerous I think men commit crimes at a different rate to women. So as dangerous men dont wear a sign another head saying I am a predator we exclude men from certain spaces. If men were ginger hair were wanting access to these spaces I would be pointing out the different offending rates in men it wouldnt be a point about their hair colour.

Crikey excuse the spelling and grammar disaster, typing too fast.

Glorianny

^It is indeed. But a male teacher wearing one in the context of primary schools having drag queens reading stories and illustrations of men in bondage gear in library books etc etc puts the skirt into a different context that is different from the norm, which is really all most people are saying^
Drag queens are part of society. They appear on TV. A child may know someone who is a drag queen. They have connections with pantomime dames something children have been deliberately exposed to for years, apparently without harm. A touring company brought a pantomime to our school every winter. There was always a dame in it.
Bondage gear is seen in many shop windows, is also seen on TV.
Children inhabit the real world, a primary school is not a place which is separate to the wider community. It is an integral part of that community where children learn about what happens in the world. They are not shut up like nuns or monks.

No, they are not isolated from the rest of society, but there are aspects of society that children are usually shielded from, which is why we have a watershed on TV, and certificates on films.

Drag queens may well have links to pantomime, but they also have links to burlesque and risqué entertainment. Also, there is a difference between watching Widow Twanky on stage as part of a panto and having a man in a sexually explicit costume read stories in the school or library environment.

Drag queens are 'part of society' in the same was as clowns or principal boys - they are roles that are usually played on stage.

Whether you like it or not, a lot of women find them tricky at best, and offensive at worst. They have been likened to Blackface in that they are caricatures of women, and mock the female face and body. I have yet to hear an argument for how they add to the school experience for children, but there are many arguments against them.

Again, they are part of a picture. Children being told there are many 'genders', fellow pupils identifying as cats or out of their sex, books with men in bondage gear (is that on sale in shop windows? I haven't seen it, but I mainly shop online) and so on, when taken together, create a landscape that many think is unhealthy and possibly dangerous for children, and a man in a skirt in this context is part of that.

Even if trans people did not exist, disguises still would...

This is why I would prefer separate secure facilities

VioletSky

This idea that trans women are inherently dangerous because of the actions of one person claiming to be trans is abhorrent propaganda used by transphobic people to spread fear and hatred

Who says transwomen are inherently dangerous? Men are not allowed in women's toilets, not because they are all inherently dangerous but because some are, and that is without going into privacy, dignity etc. We have no way of telling which ones are safe and which ones aren't so we exclude them all. Transwomen are male so they get the same exclusion as all the other males.
Why as soon as a transwoman transgresses do you say 'claiming to be trans' ? Are transpeople as a group different to the general population which includes good and bad?
I do hope you are not accusing me of being transphobic, that would be yet another lie.

Galaxy

Read the cass report with regard to gender affirming treatment for children and current NHS guidelines for young people.

The latest report says puberty blockers can be used on children who are listed for research.
Some children and young people may be eligible for enrolment in clinical research that would provide access to PSH. Outside of this research setting, NHS clinicians would no longer prescribe PSH for children and young people as a treatment for gender incongruence or dysphoria

Sorry but I find the concept that you can only get treatment for your child if you agree to them becoming a labrat very frightening.

Syracute

Doodledog

Syracute

Doodledog :
Can you please cite these so called experts that say gender affirming treatment is not helpful ? I have been following a few transgender people on Tik Tok where they talk about their experiences. It is very enlightening. It does very much help them. You like to write a lot but with little fact. There was recently a family in Britain that lost their daughter by suicide because of the over long wait list for gender affirming treatment. Thanks to VioletSky for being a voice of kindness and reason.

Someone with more knowledge than I have can answer that, if that's ok? As I said in my post, I am not best placed to know names etc. I would be reduced to googling, which obviously you could do yourself, so there would be no point .

It is NOT ok to proclaim there is no evidence that gender affirming treatment doesn’t help with no facts. I personally have read many articles about people that have done this . I have watched transgender people talk about what it is like on Tik Tok. It’s clear it does help from what I read and heard from those that have had it done. It’s shameful to come hear with a pretense of knowledge yet NO facts.

What facts do you have? TikTok is not a source of facts. I have seen all manner of things on there - clean your towels with a mix of peroxide, vinegar and baking soda for instance. It would ruin your machine and possibly explode, but it's on there. People talk about experiences that may be true for them, but cannot be extrapolated to include others.

As Galaxy has pointed out, the NHS has advised against affirmation of a child's desire to change sex - something I wold trust over TikTok any day of the week.

I don't pretend knowledge, incidentally - if I don't know something I say so. In this case, I know that experts have advised against affirmation - I just don't know of particular studies, and I have been on too many fool's errands on here, being sent off to 'research' things that then get ignored when I question them, to fall for it again. If I can google for studies, so can you.

I am not the one who brought that news story to the chat

Some spaces should never be considered safe

Because the people who respect women's privacy and stay out of women's spaces aren't the problem. The problems is the ones who don't

And genuinely I have no idea how many trans women use women's toilets, neither do you

They may just hold it till they get home or keep mental note of where separate facilities are

Because the detrimental affects of puberty blockers are considerable and they are now taking a different approach as are many countries.

To do our best by anyone suffering gender dysphoria we need finding and research, not just the loss of services

Sorry but I find the concept that you can only get treatment for your child if you agree to them becoming a labrat very frightening.

You prefer the old way where there was no record keeping or ongoing monitoring of outcomes? Puberty blockers are not harmless, they have extreme effects on the body. Transgender surgeons in USA have admitted that any child placed on puberty blockers at tanner stage 2 will never have proper sexual function or experience orgasm. What child of 10-11 can understand what they are sacrificing even if they are told, which they mostly weren't.
Don't forget, the chemicals used are identical to the ones used for the chemical castration of sex offenders.

Well yes I have been saying that for a long time. The cass report was/is part of that 'research'. In the past some research was blocked, I cant remember the name of the man whose research was blocked as it was around detransitioners.

I don't generally disagree with much of what you say galaxy

I should go to bed on that note before it deteriorates