How many dead Palestinians ....

I second everything Mishap has said. Last night's news coverage was heartbreaking.

Are we talking about the atrocity last night where the Israelis targeted a UN school in Jabaliya refugee camp in Gaza, killing at least 15 women and children whilst they slept?

I just read about it in this morning's Guardian.

The article also said that 97 percent of Israelis support further action of this kind.

Lilygran how does Dawkins come into it?

Lily - do you mean his X is bad, Y is worse .....?

I found this letter in today's Guardian a very helpful summary of the importance of the historical context

• I count myself as a supporter of the state of Israel, of its resettlement in its historic setting. But I have been distressed not only at the news of what is happening in Gaza, but also at the unwillingness of reporters and commentators to bring into the discussion the history of Israel’s re-establishment. I never thought that even the relative precariousness of Israel’s position in the Middle East justified the degree to which the Israeli state has been manifestly unfaithful to what I regard as its own Torah teaching on righteousness and justice, as reinforced by the prophets.

The fact that so few voices of eminent Israelites and Jews have been willing to admit the illegality and injustice of Israel’s West Bank settlement policy, pursued so relentlessly since 1967, I have found deeply disturbing. I acknowledge the legitimacy of Israel’s concerns in building the security barrier, but am distressed that no Elijah-like protest is to be heard or given publicity against the land-grab of the positioning of the barrier or at the abuse of traditional rights of Arab landowners and olive groves.

Nor can I defend the Hamas policy of firing rockets into Israel, but neither can I defend Israel’s policy of treating Gaza as little more than an extended prison camp. We must surely set the current catastrophe within its historical context. Since Israel owes the legitimacy of its status in the Middle East to a UN resolution, would it not be an obvious step forward for a properly representative UN panel to review the rights and wrongs of Israel’s expansion since 1948 and 1967, including the impact on the previous inhabitants of the region, and to recommend how Israel and Palestine might co-exist both peacefully and to the mutual benefit of each other in the future.
Professor James DG Dunn
Chichester, West Sussex

Now that I totally agree with.

His letter is not biased, which is nothing short of a waste of breath, although he clearly states he is a supporter of the State of Israel.

His reasoning is sound and his solution is exactly my thought too.

A good balanced letter that did not require nor use bile or hatred toward any party but simply expressed a good intention as to how this dire situation could hopefully be handled with diplomacy, not by partisan views which only serve to make the whole situation worse.

I like it.

Yes - all the words spoken over the past few weeks and for me this sums it all up. I can't disagree with his analysis at all. But it also makes me sad because its so true but will make no difference. If only there were political leaders who would be brave enough to voice these thoughts

The only political leader Israel would listen to is Obama [or whoever else in the future is the President of the US.] Because of the huge amount of Jewish people in the US they will never really speak out as we would wish.

And if they listened, it would only be because of a threat of the financial aid bring withdrawn. World at One today was profoundly depressing again on so many fronts but I remain stunned by the care and bravery of the UN staff in Gaza.

Well done Margot James - who will be brave enough to be next?

blogs.channel4.com/cathy-newman-blog/exclusive-tory-mp-urges-government-rethink-gaza/874

HAMAS seem to have an unlimited supply of weapons. Where are they all coming from?

I agree with Prof Dunn as well. He expresses my sentiments.

So, on our list of individuals who may be able to help mediate, goes Prof Dunn

Galen possibly the same place as the Israeli weapons..

I hae to think what would happen if the Palestinians had not formofdefenceat all.

What they do have is like a pin in the skin of an elephant.

In which case I think I'd stop pricking the elephant.

Not if it kept walking all over your land and stopped you getting to the fresh water, food, healthcare & means of livlihood you wouldn't!

Real people; men, women, children and babies are dying on both sides. To see the devastation in Gaza at first hand was too much for one experienced UN worker. Ex-BBC correspondent Christopher Gunness broke down on camera after filming a news segment for Al Jazeera.
heavy.com/news/2014/07/watch-united-nations-unrwa-christopher-gunness-cries-on-tv-gaza/

This explains how HAMAS is financed

Interesting, ffinnochio and a very interesting link from that article to another on the border crossings to both Israel and Egypt.

That is an interesting link ffinochio

Hello, ffinnochio
----
''This [claims it] explains how HAMAS is financed ''
---
Inspection elsewhere will show that the author says of herself :
* I write a personal weekly column and I’m one of the head commentators for the Israeli newspaper Maariv.
* I used to be one of the leading columnists and the chief editor of the daily magazine of the Israeli Business Newspaper, Globes.

It is in Israel's favour to demonise Hamas and its supporters. Too much propaganda.

I see that Israel is now saying it was not Hamas who killed the 3 Israeli teens . The crime that sparked this current crisis.

It also seems that Hamas were in talks to get to the negotiating table when the crime was committed. This gave Israel the 'excuse' to step up it's usual aggression towards ordinary citizens in its search for perpetrators. I think Israel knew this would provoke a reaction. Giving them 'carte blanche' to bomb Gaza.

Again from last night's BBC news: an Israeli bomber pilot was talking to the BBC correspondent and the conversation went thus (not word for word):

"Does it not worry you that you are killing innocent people down there?"
"No - we are offering all the medical help we can to people who are injured."
"But would it not be better not to injure them in the first place?"
"Oh - we have saved many people."
"How so?"
"Well, sometimes when it looks as if we might be about to hit a place where there are children, we move on, so we have saved those children."

Well - that's big of him. With this sort of twisted rationale, how on earth can this situation be solved?

You've got to be taught
To hate and fear,
You've got to be taught
From year to year,
It's got to be drummed
In your dear little ear
You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught to be afraid
Of people whose eyes are oddly made,
And people whose skin is a diff'rent shade,
You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught before it's too late,
Before you are six or seven or eight,
To hate all the people your relatives hate,
You've got to be carefully taught!

Sadly, on both sides of this bloody situation, generations are being taught to hate.

South Pacific!