Hopeless dilemma

What a controlling bully. Like others, I was fuming as I read your account of his behaviour. It is just plain nasty to tease and goad a child so young - anyone knows a 3 year old hasn't yet developed the necessary social skills to deal with such behaviour.
More important, though, is that children learn by example, which is why it is incumbent upon all family members, and others who are in regular contact with little ones, to set a good example to them, so that they might grow up to be kind, thoughtful and responsible adults. Thank heavens your DD is not reliant upon this awful man for childcare, because your GS would be at real risk of growing into a bully himself - he's already worked out the kind of language his GF understands and retaliated by smacking him.
I really feel for you, luckygirl - it's hard enough on your DD and SiL to have to deal with this, but we grandparents feel so impotent. We can't just wade in and give these bullies a piece of our mind, no matter how desperately we would love to.
for you. (And I hope your new name turns out to be prophetic)

Luckygirl I can't help suspecting that because of SiL's family relationship with FiL, he's unable to view him in a detached and businesslike way.
You say FiL's business provides an essential element of SiL and DD's business.
So what would happen if FiL dropped dead tomorrow?
SiL and DD would have to find a way to run their business without him.

They would either have to negotiate with someone else in FiLs business who could carry on providing the service, or find another company who could do it.

Perhaps SiL and DD(maybe with suitable mentoring beforehand) could work out such possibilies, then approach FiL along the lines of 'we want to do some forward planning and we're considering the options available to us when you're no longer around.'

That might give FiL pause for thought.
Even if it doesn't, SiL and DD might start to feel a bit more in charge of their own destiny, which in turn would cause FiL to view them differently - as business partners who deserve respect, rather than children in his debt, which is how it appears at least to this outsider.

I would definitely restrict his access to the child and make sure they only have contact during family occasions when others are there. The poor child is probably scared of him now anyway.

As far as the business is concerned it might be a case of 'Least said, soonest mended' because nobody wants their livelihood put at risk which could have far reaching consequences but your DD and SiL can always create another agenda.....How to protect their business interests and steer them in a safer direction.

In some ways they have the upper hand because he's shown his true colours now and won't be trusted again.

He's clearly living in a bygone age, the b****rd

I'm sorry not to have offered support earlier but juts caught up with this discussion. I have to say that I would agree with merlot. What a nasty man.

I think I'd be in bed with a temperature and vomiting if I had a DH away all summer and a FIL to whom we were in financial thrall who dropped in whenever and taunted my children. Change the locks for her if he has a key and let him know that's it's something incredibly infectious and dangerous to old men. I'm may sound frivolous ,I'm not,but get your GP to give you a name for "there's something nasty doing the rounds". Having to work in a family business is not always a good thing

I have just returned from taking the children back after a day looking after them. DD is very slightly better and she has eaten two slices of toast - but her temp is still up.

However, she was still very upset about FIL and told me more of what happened. He apparently pinned the child under his arm and hit his bare backside - it doesn't bear thinking about. I can only support them in trying to deal with this situation. It is all so sad.

It just gets worse. That man is an egocentric monster. All the more reason why the little boy should never be left with him. I think if my FiL had behaved that way I might have assaulted him m
I'm so sorry your DD is so poorly. Is it an identifiable 'bug'?

Sorry - phone went and I left a sentence hanging. I think I was going to say I'd have murdered him!

We feel like this too.

Your DD is currently trapped.
If she isnt careful, she is going to end up like her mil around her fil.

Encourage your DD and sil to break free. Or further down the line, there are going to be bigger problems.
You need to be brave too.

I dont think that always being in the room is going to work long term.

Oh that's awful, almost assault by today's standards.

i hope your SIL and DD find a way, gradually, to change the balance of power between them and the FIL.

Is it really not possible for your SIL to have a word with his father?

It's serious abuse. I would be tempted to let him know that any meddling with with DD's and SiL's business affairs will result in a phone call to the police.

What a monster.

luckygirl I sent you an acknowledgement PM and now I wonder if it will lead to the same problem.

Don't worry petallus - I have disabled the feature whereby an email arrives about the message. I will look in the inbox now.

Yes, I had the same thought Petallus I wasn't ignoring you Luckygirl

It has been a difficult day. My DD (who is ill with a virus at the moment) has been on the phone in tears, trying to come to terms with it all, and what should happen next. Very sad is that the older child, who is 6, highly intelligent (years ahead of his age) and very sensitive, suddenly said "I did not like it when XXX hit XXX" - it is a breach of trust and very hard for a little one to deal with. He has been shaken up, having never witnessed anything like that in his life.

We love these children dearly and I just feel so angry about this. I have had to curb that and try and help my DD to think her way through it clearly and to have the courage to put her point over in as calm a way as possible; and to have confidence in the parenting decisions that she and her OH have made. They truly are lovely parents, and they deal so well with discipline in a firm but loving way. What a mess this all is.

Does the FiL realise even part of the enormity of it, Luckygirl?
Even if he doesn't accept that, he can hardly fail to have noticed how upset your DD and SiL have been.

Surely he can see that he has destroyed that trust and the relationship is now on a very different footing?

I ran this past DD today and she was shocked speechless. Couldn't believe that someone could behave like this. He really must have as little contact as possible with the children.

No jane - he does not realise. He is a huge man (which makes the hitting worse) - but he is very insecure (as most bullies are) - he is noisy and brash (embarrassingly so) in company, bigoted and racist, and about as unlike my DD (and my SIL) as it is possible to imagine. My DD has put so many years of effort into trying to maintain good relations and now it has all blown up. He is grossly unfit (including diabetes) and refuses to take any control over this, continuing to overeat and drink spirits to excess.

There is a lobby within that family in favour of smacking and they do not begin to understand why my DD and her OH will have no truck with it.

My view is that it has bugger all to do with them or us - that our job is to respect the decisions that these parents have made about their children (unless something were grossly amiss).

It is going to blow the family apart and I do not know how it will end; but my DD is clear that the children will never be put in a position where it could happen again.

If it were left to me I would report him to the police, but I am buttoning the lip.

Thank you for the supportive comments - so very helpful, and something that GNet is so good at.

Yes, there is a similar work dynamic in my family.
I have been trying to imagine my fil doing it to one of our kids. I cant. No way.

If he had, DH would have hit the roof. He would have read fil the riot act. Even if it meant termination of the business arrangement.
Yet your sil appears to be nowhere. I hope your sil acts soon.

It's easy for you to say that though Soon, isn't it?
Your family isn't Luckygirl's family, and you shouldn't judge her SiL as you appear to be doing.

Yet Jane there's a grain of truth in that. If I remember the OP then SiL is away from home and not well? Well I wonder how free with his hands this bullying FiL would be if his son was there and well and in a position to deal with his father and support his family.

This is no reflection on Lucky's SiL but often bullies take advantage of situations like this.

My DH would have left working, and come home. Immediately.

I am judging her sil's behaviour, but I suppose it is wrapped up in his personality. People are allowed to judge peoples' behaviour though.

It isn't always simple or easy for an adult son to stand up to a parent who has bullied them all their life.
My exh made untrue allegations about his own son to my dil's family, which gave my ds the anger and strength to finally disown his father. He was still very upset about losing his dad!
I'm sure lucky girl's dd and sil will find a way to protect their children, the business may have to change direction.
I have every sympathy for your anguish lucky

Perhaps you need to stop and reflect S2B as your post sounds very judgemental, by your own admission. You do not know enough to make a valid judgement.