Hopeless dilemma

That is a good post from jane. Power often follows the money and the FIL seems to be exploiting his position as far as that goes.

I also agree with roses (I think it was her who said) to not escalate matters with police and who knows what else. Anyway you can't really do anything, as you say, it's for your DD and SIL to deal with. The little boy can be kept away from him. However, your paths will cross.

I was in the situation where my FIL threw my 5 year old son into the deep end of a swimming pool. My son swam (he could swim) to the edge and shocked, got out in tears, and ran to mommy, a perfect outcome for wanting to "man him up" (not). I was seething and I don't remember the detail but obviously I got the message across because it never happened again. My son, as an adult, loved that granddad very much and they found a way to have a relationship. Of course my son also had many other stable, loving, proper men as role models, that balanced things out.

But, three is tiny. I'd be mad as a snake too.

Great name change! I felt furious for you as I was reading. My late MIL gave my DD one smack years ago and I was so angry I threatened she,d never see her again, it didn't happen twice. This is assault and bullying men like him will never change, you admit your SIL probably had a rotten childhood thank goodness he didn't repeat the pattern and is a loving father. I know it must be very difficult financially for them but I would be looking for an out employment wise, shares of the business can be looked at later when there is no emotional black mailing role . There is no positive experience here with this man for this lovely little boy. I do feel for you all and am glad you give him such love as a contrast. If he was difficult about the business I think I would threaten him with the police probably nobody has ever stood up to him before, bullies are cowards.

Good post Jane. I hope you feel a little better Luckygirl. It is a real worry for you.

Luckygirl I can't really add to the advice you've already had about limiting the access of this man to your DGS, which doesn't sound too difficult. It goes without saying that I understand how very upset you and your DD must feel.

But I think what is perhaps just as important in the longterm is for your DD and SiL to work out how they can achieve some sort of financial independence from this man.He sounds a dreadful bully.
Without knowing how the business is structured, I've no idea how this could be managed but speaking generally, the FiL must be dependent in some way on SiL and DD's input into the business, perhaps more than they realise.
It might be time to sit down and work out how they can protect their interests - presumably FiL is not in the first flush of youth and perhaps should be thinking about his exit strategy. with a bit of help fro SiL and DD.

How does your SIL get on with his dad?
If I were your DD and SIL, I think that I would cut loose.

You see a lot of men who go about "teasing" "goading" "playfighting" with very little kids. I find it appalling that some men seem to think it is fun to get little children involved in "play violence" A very small child has no idea of the rules or the boundaries.

Luckygirl Do you know the other grand mother enough to have a chat with her? Although as she has been living with this awful man for so long she is probably so ground down by that she would not say boo to a goose.

Riverwalk Most families have financial commitments, such as rent/mortgage, and it is not always easy to give up working for a business and find another job.

Having said that, if it is at all possible it would be a good idea to at least investigate other employment options because this man seems to have a very unhealthy hold over the whole family and his behaviour towards the little boy sounds a bit unhinged to me.

If there really is no option but to continue in the business, I think your daughter or son-in-law should always be present when the in-laws are around.

What an awful man, how lucky that your SiL turned out to be so nice. What a shame he has to work with his father.

I gasped out loud when reading this, not at the awful assault on a three year old (it was an assault - wallop sounds like a bit of a lark) but at the implication that no-one can say anything to the f*cker because he would cut off their source of income!

How many more beatings should this child be subject to at the hand of his grandfather because his mother and father are worried about their finances?

I can understand your strong feelings at the moment Lucky - I hope you all find a way to put this man'a behaviour behind you, he's not worth it.

What a vile character this man is! Such a shame your DD's family has to depend on them for their livelihood. Thank goodness she doesn't have to rely on them totally for childcare too.
Meanwhile I don't see what else you can do other than continue to give them your support.

"What goes around comes around" springs to mind.

You are right anya - I am sure that is the way forward.

We are all very upset about it just now though. Incandescent with rage would be a bit hearer the mark.

I think your DD has two levels to this problem. Short term she can stop using FIL for child care, but long term there will have to be some sort of relationship between your DGS and FIL, she will need to decide how she approaches this and what she tellls both of them, but particularly your DGS to get them through things. I wonder about the MIL, could she be suffering violence and abuse?

You asked how we feel about this man's behaviour and I think the posts above say it all...but the important thing is really where you DD goes from here.

From what you say there is no problem with child care so the children have no need to be left with him. I'd say there is a simple solution - only allow him very occasional access to his GC and then only when you and/or your DD is there.

No need to make an issue of it just sort of make that how it is.

No-one dares confront him - he is never wrong. It would blow the whole family and business scenario apart. My DD and her OH dare not say a word. But you may rest assured his involvement with his GC will be kept to the absolute minimum and never unsupervised..

My poor DD is very upset - it is so hard for her. She wants to defend both her OH and her child.

I do not know what I will say to him when I see him. I think I will have to keep out of his way as far as possible.

Yes he doesn't sound the brightest. He may be pretty defensive if confronted.

The creepy thing about this chap is that he is full of noisy bonhomie, and has to be the centre of attention all the time - always making loud puerile jokes. I think he has his own problems - although rich, I think his literacy skills are poor; and he has drunk himself into diabetes and obesity and will not act on any doctor's advice.

The problem for your DD is if he does that in her presence she must consider what is 'possibly' happening when she is not there. Probably nothing at all harmful but the seed of doubt has been set.

I don't envy you all having the neccessary conversation with the in laws.

How very distressing.

What a nasty piece of work that man is to goad a child so young and then react in such a violent way to the child's expected reaction. It is up to your DD and SIL how they deal with the situation but that child should not be within a mile of that man without another responsible adult by the child's side.

If he was questioned, would he allow his own son to perhaps lose his house etc by closing down the business because he is so controlling?

I do like the change of name!

Yes as j52 says he should only be able to see the little boy with parents or yourself present to model appropriate behaviour as well as prevent further smacking situations. If he did it in front of you though.......

Hopefully the child will not remember any of this. FIL should not be able to babysit again, but see the child with its parents or you in attendance.

The whole situation is very distressing for you. x

I am having to stand back and let DD and her OH deal with this as they see fit. But I am finding it hard - I am so upset about it. DGS is just the loveliest of boys, who is being brought up with kind and loving discipline, and a real understanding of his emotional needs - which is why this is so very hard for them.

There is a MIL and she does not question or challenge her OH. And yes he did, and still does, bully my SIL (who is the loveliest of much-loved SIL).

I was a SW, and this is indeed illegal - it is classified as common assault if an non-parent hits a child. A parent is allowed to chastise their own child as long as the child is not marked or cut. This is in England - the rest of Europe has more stringent rules.

Baying for blood, and police matter....... Not a good idea.We as grandparents grew up in a different time, and a smack for children was the norm when they misbehaved.This man is the gir's FIL after all, and there will be many family get togethers in the future.A quiet word is the best idea, and don't leave the boy alone with him again if she can help it.Some men do play rough games with children, I never think it's a great idea.

If they don't need to see him is it possible for your DD to just keep the GS away from the nasty FiL? You do any babysitting needed and wait for FiL to notice that he's not seeing the GS then mention why not. Alternatively, he just might be of an age or background to genuinely not understand that his behaviour is a complete no no. Maybe he's sorry himself and doesn't know how to make it right? Some people find it hard to find the words. Give him a chance? Bring it into the open? Its a risk but actually all the options are. Oh dear. Not very helpful (but very sympathetic)

It's not a hopeless dilemma if your DD doesn't have to leave your DGS in FIL's care ever again.