DiL Probs & I Finally Snapped

I am sure that she had been told /read/knows about the potential damage to babies/children from smoke, smoking parents & passive smoking before your outburst supernan She has made a choice most find hard to understand but she is an adult and not a child.

I hope you can ignore their mum's poor choices enough to maintain a relationship with the children. They are the most important people in this scenario so possibly by focusing on them you can feel better about their situation.

Can you give them some alternative experiences by taking them out (if she allows this of course) for some fun, it might help you to feel you are making a difference to the children and reduce your worry.

Awful situation to be in you have my sympathy after all she is carrying your grandchild so the drinking and smoking is something a lot of people would of shown their disapproval of you have said your piece though and with any luck you never know you might have given her something to think about .

I put up with my DiLs behaviour for 7 years before I finally snapped. It resulted in me losing my son and my 2 grand daughters. My advice would be to keep your opinions between yourself and your husband otherwise you may end up losing them all

Poor you, I feel for you. Unfortunately it seems her standards are not yours, and that must be hard to see. Don't beat yourself up about this, you did what you thought was right at the time and that is all any of us can do.
This is my second marriage and I had a lovely but a slob of a DiL, and I mean a slob. She was fine at first and welcomed me with open arms, but it went down hill from there. Her house got so bad that I refused to go in, which upset her father, but I could not bare to see the sea of clothes on kitchen floor, there was not a clean dish in the house, the dirty plates were left as such, everywhere. The cats use to climb all over them and lick the plates/bowls/pans. The toilet was so dirty I couldn't bring myself to use it.
The whole family tried to do stuff for her, but in the end it was no use, she couldn't or wouldn't see what was wrong. She had 3 children, the youngest at the time was just months old. She laid on her back on the sofa with the baby on her chest and just let the other 2 fend for themselves, until the school got involved and alerted social services and she was only given 4 weeks to pull herself around. She did, but within 5 years she was dead, took her own life.
I am satisfied that everything that could be done was, her father still feels quilty after 4 years, but our children will go their own way no matter what we want, try and make your peace, she will not change for you, just keep an eye on the children and do what you can for them, while you can.

Good Luck and chin up.

Taking drugs is considered child abuse when you are pregnant and smoking and drinking are drugs.

All these other people who agree with what you said and are saying nothing to her are condoning her behavior. When the subject comes up again I would tell them this. The fact that she went crazy at what you said was a good opportunity for others to support you and back up what you said.

Depressed maybe, but I think she has learnt that she can get away with this behavior and everyone is scared to stand up to her.

Don't avoid family events. She will most likely avoid them using you as the excuse.

Children 8 and 6 , most likely SS was encouraging her to find a job now the children are in full time schooling, having another baby is the way some women avoid this.

Supernan60: How I sympathise with your situation. If you felt very courageous you could ask your DIL outright what it is that prevents you having a good relationship. You will never be able to approve of her behaviour, but there may be deep psychological reasons for it: she may not have experienced a good mother herself, she may be depressed, she may feel inferior to you; whatever it is she does not feel the need to treat you with respect, which hurts. I was never good enough for my MIL who was the perfect housewife and very critical of me. In her old age, after several strokes, she said: " I do love you you know, Jackie." I had to stop myself saying, "But it's too late." She was just too different from me to ever appreciate my good side, and could only see my faults. In the end what can we do but try to be kind to one another? There's nothing you can do until she sees the error of her ways.

It sounds like she might have been clinically depressed 3211123rjc, in which case it is a crying shame that the school and social services couldn't help her. I have a photo of one of my DiLs in which she is sitting with her first child on her a knee, a few months old, and she looks sad beyond tears. When I looked at it after that visit I phoned my son and asked him if she had post natal depression. He said "no......what? I'll mention it." The next thing I heard was that she'd been to the doctor and had all sorts of tests and the upshot was successful treatment. Perhaps the pregnant DiL needs help too.

A difficult one but we wish we had spoken out. My stepdaughter smoked and ate badly throughout her pregnancies and gave birth to 2 underweight babies, 1 seriously so and lucky to survive. They are both now healthy 20 somethings, thank goodness. Unfortunately, her 3rd baby died a few days before term and she had to give birth to her 3 days later. Would it have made a difference if we had spoken out? We will always wonder.

OMG Wilks - please don't beat yourself up over it. Its all water under the bridge now, but may help someone else to decide whether to speak out or not.

This may be psycho babble pop psychology, but the most comforting thing I have read about this is that the soul is intelligent and would not enter a body that was not going to incarnate.

Apologies in advance if this offends anybody's scientific, spiritual or religious views.

I think Nonnie has got it right.You should speak your mind to this young woman and if she doesn't like it, tough.Like Nonnie I gave in to my son and his partner.The more I did the worse they got.My excuse was I wanted to see my granddaughter who is 18 months old now.They gave us every excuse in the book not to see her.We went over 1 Friday as I arrange it with his partner.He kept us standing on the back door step and wouldn't let us inHe called us liars as his partner denied she had made arrangement with us..Loads more than that happened.The crunch came the end of Feb I won't go into details but it was pretty badSo I sent them a letter each saying I neither wanted to see or hear from them again.It's the best decision I have made.All the anxiety of trying to keep them happy has gone.The bad thing is not seeing our granddaughter but they would prevent that anyway.
I don't think you have any chance with you DiL .Arrange to see your SS and grandchildren and leave it at that.You will feel much saner.

If relatives are really concerned for the safety and welfare of children they should contact Social Services. It is also possible for relatives to contact GP (by phone or letter) to express concerns about someone's mental health.

Do you know if she has a health visitor or could you contact her doctor and mention your concerns, stressing that they should not mention you? I think it might come better from a health professional.
As other people have suggested, she may be depressed and overwhelmed. Does she get much help from her husband? We aren't in the Dark Ages - even if he has a full-time job, he shouldn't leave her to cope with two children, the house and a pregnancy all on her own. The children are old enough to help with the cleaning and tidying up. It sounds to me as if she is very depressed and has given up.
I don't think you should interfere - if you don't like going to her house, then don't go, you could always have the children for a bit after school if they live near enough.

I would go mad if a future grandchild of mine was being treated like that. DON'T bite your tongue. Tell her exactly what you think, for the child's sake. What does your stepson say about it?

I don't think anything you say is going to make a difference to this ignorant young woman. However, if there is a community midwife who visits her, surely the odour of tobacco would be noticed and comment made. Perhaps you could make inquiries to see if there is such a service in her community.

You are totally in the right but the DIL has the power if she has influence over your son and she is responsible for your grandchildren. It is awful and I would want to tell her exactly what I thought of her were I you. However, if you do that it could lead to a total cessation of relations with people you love.

You are going to have to be devious, political and Machiavellian about this to get the upper hand. You'll have to ignore the dirt and the idleness but watch out for actual neglect or misbehaviour towards the children.

Sits with her BACK TO YOU! Sheesh!

Instead of berating this woman perhaps a bit of kindness and support are needed. Lots of women can display the things mentioned above due to lots of reasons eg. depression, learning difficulties, etc Criticising doesnt help one needs to offer practical help in a loving way - but dont expect things to change overnight.

If you p*xx her off so much that she refuses contact you won't have any influence over the children at all. Cut your losses, identify what you can do to improve things for the children i.e have them to stay, take them out etc.to broaden their experience and give them some happy times/memories.

Starstella,did your son discuss contents of the letters with you,or have you just not seen or heard from them since.
People can make excuse for this person,but her behaviour is appalling,there must come a time when enough is enough,For me that would be sitting with her back to me,I bet you felt like smacking her,I would have,

Nothing can excuse smoking and drinking whilst pregnant. My DD wouldn't even take a paracetamol!

Oh Supernan what a horrible situation. You say the other DILs are ok- do they have anything to do with her; do they live nearby; do the children all go to the same school?
I think you should get in touch with her GP/midwife to let them know your concerns re smoking and alcohol. They are used to not letting on who brought it to their attention-shame on them if they're seeing her and have said/done nothing. . . . Maybe they have already and she chooses to ignore then?
As other have said it is more important you keep an ongoing relationship with your GC.
Should you speak to DIL again why not ask if there's anything you can do to help, is there anything she needs? Pointless re-hashing the incident IMHO- just feeds the fire.

I am new to Gransnet. I am a surprised by the unsympathetic views expressed on this forum - if this is the majority view I'm not sure I want to be associated with Gransnet

HellsBells try Soops Kitchen, warm welcome there

I know what you mean about biting your tongue!!!! Sometimes I have remembered to do it and then others passion is so involved I forget to think how will she react if l say.....................When l watch them spending more time on their iPhones than playing with their children! I don't say anything but comment on it to DH when we are home. He agrees!
We as Grandparents have to be very careful, we love them so much, all of them but have to only really say something when really needed. Life is tough!!

I think people make too many excuses for other's behaviour. Not everyone who lives like a pig is depressed or overwhelmed. For god's sake she is not living in the third world and having to fetch water/feed goats, she has two children at school and is pregnant, so what? She sounds like a lazy, rude mare. Now having said that, what can you do? Don't apologise to her; you are not sorry, you know you are right ( as we all do) that she shouldnt be smoking and drinking during pregnancy and she must do too, the information is everywhere so she is just choosing to ignore it. So, dont apologise, dont give her more cause to be rude, just carry on as you are, try to avoid her other than in company when she may be forced to be less vile. Try to have your grandchildren to visit , give them a bit of time in a home without smoke. The housekeeping issues are all personal, but smoking and drinking while pregnant is not, it is being imposed on an unborn child with no choices. Ignorant people like your DiL make me angry. Angry on behalf of the unborn child and angry on your behalf that you have to put up with this disgusting, selfish woman.

SuperNan60 - you have done everything you can. Keep away from this arrogant and foolish woman. It took me years to accept that not everybody has to like me or my opinions, and even longer to realise that I do not have to like or respect everybody.

Cut her out of your life, at least for now. She doesn't want you or your advice. This is what the turning of her back to you means. You have done your very best and to continue will bring you more heartbreak.

You may find a way to continue a relationship with your stepson and grandchildren but their mother/wife is more important to them, however useless or damaging she is.

You have been very brave, a heroine. We should all learn to say what we think.