Difficulties with grandchildren's nanny (employed person, not other grandparent).

I think there may be a missed point here. Lots of advice regarding grandparents rights, role of the nanny, parents working etc etc. Has anyone stopped to think what it is actually like for these children in this atmosphere. That's the most important part of the equation for me. Some of the alleged language used by this nanny towards the children rings alarm bells for me ..................

Yes, your DD and SIL are the ones who should decide; perhaps they will be more accessible at the weekends (or find another nanny!)

Neither I or my DC have ever had nannies but what I do know is that the time you spend with your DGC is up to the parents not you. You can ask but it is the parents right as to how much contact you have. I understand your need and desire to see your DGC but it sounds to me as though your DD and SIL are very reliant on the nanny to look after their children so they can work. You don't seem to have concerns about her care of the children just over her control of your visits.

Is it possible for you to suggest to your DD that you (and possibly other GP) have the children one day/morning/afternoon a week/fortnight without the nanny.

Don't forget that for the nanny, this is her job. I was never a nanny but I was a childminder for many years and when grandparents came to visit, mum and dad made it very clear they wanted me to still come and look after the children in the same way even when GP were still there. This is a bit difficult as you develope a routine with the children and also GP might not agree with how the minder or nanny looks after the children. I was fortunate in getting on with both sets of GP for the children I looked after.

As you and the nanny obviously have issues, could you not agree with your DD a set period when you look after children on your own. Obviously, you would have to do this without letting them down otherwise they would be stuck with no one to look after the children. P.S, I would not have wanted to go out with the GP when looking after someone else's children. I have my own social circle.

Whatever the outcome, I hope you get to see your GC on a reasonably regular basis. (once a week is lovely but a lot of GN don't get to see GC more than once a month)

Thank you everyone for your incredibly supportive and helpful comments. Jalima, you're right.. this isn't the same daughter as the one who's recently had the baby - all is going brilliantly there and within that family dynamic. I have only ever started three threads, including this current one, and it was only when I remembered how helpful most of the comments to that previous thread had been that I thought of putting this issue out there to you all.
Flossieturner, this is indeed the approach which DH and I have decided on. I was feeling very emotional when I made the original post yesterday evening, after a disastrous encounter with the nanny followed by cross words from my daughter, and it has definitely been helpful to read everyone's wise comments and to feel the very real concern out there in the GN community.
DH is taking on the role of a mediator (I do appreciate how lucky I am to have him) and we are going to see if we can meet with our daughter & son-in-law for a calm & sensible discussion to find the best way forward. I don't know when - or even if - that will happen (though I believe & trust that it will), but if people are interested, I could let you know in time how it goes. Thank you again.

The daughter and son-in-law should step in and sort this out. Most grandparents would be horrified if their access to DGCs was dictated by a nanny. There has to be a compromise somewhere.

Even if she's Mary Poppins personnified, she won't be there for ever. She could find another job and leave them in the lurch and I wonder who would be called upon for support if that happens?

mutti - is this Nanny English ? It is surely irrelevant what her other nanny friends think. If you stop your visits in the week you will then not see your grandchildren at all, which isn't right.

The nanny sounds horrible !!!!

I also don't think she is making waves - seems to me she's pretty upset about not being able to see her grandchildren at all, due to the Nanny.

Ana

The post says she can't see the grandchildren at weekends because parents of the children socialise at weekends. This is one of the problems here.

You ask if others have had this experience. I have with an au pair which is a little different from a nanny & they are abroad so we don't visit that often but are at close quarters when we do. I can empathise however to some extent. DS & DiL had their first au pair in Jan - someone who worked in the same building as her mother in NZ. As we understand the importance of regular routines for GC whose parents wre at work we were careful not to get in the way of the relationship she had with the kids. However, there were too many times when we felt she was purposely cutting us out & snatched the baby when we went to change his nappy. It made us aware of how important such activities were to bonding with GS2 who didn't know us so well. She was very OTt & loud in the way she handled the boys & at first they responded well. We didn't say too much as we weren't there ling but I did mention a couple of things to DS. I was so relieved when she left ahalf way through her contract & so were DS & DiL as they were about to sack her. She had started reprimanding GS1 in an aggressive way & cut across his parents in a similar way to your nanny. Her room was a tip & she didn't do what was agrred in the house so they had to keep the cleaner on. She'd also helped herself to their special luxury food kept for special occasions.

They are now using an agency & have a lovely young woman from Tunisia who is brilliant & melts into the background when appropriate. Mind you DS found her cultural tendency to be subservient very difficult to begin with though by the end if the year I think she will have gained more than the language. She is already determined not to return home just to be a subservient wife, having learnt so much from DiL's & her German cousins' lives.
I hope that helps mutti.

I don't see why a grandmother has 'a perfect right' to see her grandchildren at any time. They are her children's children, not hers and they've employed a Nanny for child-care during the week as they both work.

What's the problem with only seeing them at weekends? Lots of grans who aren't retired have to make do with that, and think of all those whose families live hundreds of miles away.

Stop making waves. You aren't 'entitled' to anything. Sorry to sound harsh, but really...

Why do mum and dad have to work so hard? Is it for the kids or their own egos
Well, why should a woman have to give up a hard-earned career if she wants to carry on working?
One of my young relatives employed nannies for a long time and DD does occasionally when pressure of work increases.
What's so different between that and paying a large amount for nursery?

You don't say if the nanny lives in or works as needed. If your daughter and her husband want to socialise at weekends, could you have the grandchildren then?

You mention "previous nannies" - plural - how many have there been? I only had one nanny in five years as I wanted continuity for my kids. Is you daughter difficult to work for? If that's the case maybe this one is what she wants whatever you think of her.

Does she know what's going on? Ask her if she wants her children to see less of all their grandparents - if she does, sadly there's not much you can do about it. If she's happy for you all to see the grandchildren, be honest about the nanny and her comments and rudeness and suggest she asks her 6 year old what she thinks of this nanny. Kids are usually very honest.

This child is three years old, the other one is six.

This, presumably, is not the same DD who has just had another baby (other thread)?

If Nanny is trying to keep the children to a routine it could be difficult to have someone else coming in and disrupting that routine (after all, it is her job, she can't just go and have a cup of coffee and put her feet up!). Perhaps the children become badly behaved after a visit by DGM who may spoil them. Who knows?

On the other hand, if proper arrangements have been made between parents and grandparents then it is not up to the Nanny to change those arrangements.

It's very difficult - a nanny is carrying out the instructions of the parents, not the grandparents and you need to speak to your DD and SIL about the arrangements and any concerns you may have.

This is a very interesting thread, in terms of the different views expressed. From the information you have given, which seems to be fair and even handed, there are those who think the Nanny is doing a bad job, the family needs a nannycam, has ideas above her station and is rude, that she wants to socialise too much. The other view is that she is a professional woman who is doing the job in the way your daughter wants her to.

I am sure that not many of us employed a Nanny. Either we stayed at home, or shared care with other mums or relatives. I feel that this woman, although not perfect is an essential part of your daughter's household. If it came to a choice between Nanny and Grandmother I think the Grandmother will lose.

I would be very reluctant to stress your daughter even more with complaints about the Nanny. I am sure you are not going to make demands as some have suggested. Those that say you have 'rights' to see your GC are sadly out of touch. As for woman-up and be confrontational, I am sure you will not go down that path.

Quietly supporting your daughter is the way to see more of your Grandchildren.

Ructions with who? The nanny ? You need to "woman" up and be a grandmother. Unless the ructions are with your daughter, just ignore the nanny's ructions. Just tell her to put her feet up, have a cup of coffee and a break - after all she's being well paid for it, and if you want to see your grandchildren it is your perfect right to do so. You give the impression you're scared stiff of the nanny and the Nanny must be revelling in wielding all this power over you !!

This is a difficult one. Sounds the nanny is a tad insecure of her own capabilities and is on the defensive.
Any chance of dancing to her tune, for now, as you don't want to upset the children or your daughter.

I don't think for the moment that she will try and come between you and your grandchildren and she has to have a break at some time so can you then have a quiet word with your daughter tell her how you feel and then it really is up to your daughter.Sorry, but they are her children.

To ameliorate this discussion to a more normal one. [ i.e. family orientated].

Why do mum and dad have to work so hard? Is it for the kids or their own egos

I presume perhaps wrongly, that status is involved, house, nanny, posh whatever.

Do your best as a granny , along with the other one.

Children are a gift for a small time , but then its their lives, an abbrevrated Ghibran saying

She's been with them two years, seen off one grandmother and you daren't turn up unannounced or it will cause ructions? She also decides how many days a week your grandchild can attend nurery school?

Who the hell does she think she is and more fool your DD and DSiL for allowing it to get this far.

I'd have either murdered her by now or told DD that I won't be calling round anymore but they know where I am if they need me. No way would I be made a fool of by a hired help, for that is all she is at the end of the day.

I have no experience of nannies personally but have watched `The hand that rocks the cradle ` lol . I would not trust any stranger with my beautiful children/grandchildren regardless of me having a career /job/ busy life . Why bother having them . I am sorry but the op really annoyed me, firstly that the parents are giving full control of there household and children to someone they don`t know and secondly that this person in their employ is behaving in such an odd way and no one is questioning it . If I were in your position I would turn up at anytime of day I chose just to see what is going on and why she is trying to block visits to YOUR grandchildren .

Jolly, there's an explanation for the turnover of nannies: first one came when six year old was six months and DD resumed her demanding career - this lady stayed over three years and we all got on well; unfortunately she had to retire because of worsening knee problems and sadly there followed two disastrous ones (first one who was extremely unreliable and kept going off sick and then one who had to be sacked by my daughter because she turned out to have hidden mental problems which her referee had not mentioned in the reference). Interestingly, both of these nannies came through reputable agencies! During the time of these two highly unsatisfactory nannies DD became understandably extremely stressed. There were two lovely temporary nannies as well who, along with DH, me & the other grandma, held the fort during this difficult time. The current nanny has been in post for two years and I suspect that the trauma of the preceding six months is part of the reason my daughter is so worried about upsetting her. The plan is for this nanny to remain for another year, or just over, until the end of the youngest child's first term in school. The nanny does no housework, though she does cook for the children, so she will have little to do during the day once the youngest is at school, but DD is sensibly keen to avoid a changeover of primary carer at the same time as the little one starts school. She will be young for her year anyway, and won't have had the experience of full-time nursery school beforehand, as the nanny has argued my daughter into only sending her three mornings a week even though she has to pay for five.
It just seems such a shame that this younger DGC may well not see anything like as much of her grandparents (with whom she is so affectionate) during this formative childhood stage as she or we (and, I suspect also my daughter & son-in-law .. provided it doesn't impinge on other aspects of their lives) would wish.
Incidentally, I would not dare turn up unannounced. If I arrive even ten minutes before the appointed time it causes ructions.

Alarm bells should be ringing loud and clear, this woman is not mary poppins best thing you can do is turn up unexpectedly and keep doing it as often as you can.As i have said in another post there are some outstanding childcare practioner's and some really bad ones out their.

Seems to be a turnover of nannies!

You know your family, but can you suggest a reason for the turnover. That might be a key to this ones attitude. Do nannies chat to each other and compare notes?

mutti I can relate regarding how to approach grown up children on tricky subjects. I have 3 grown up sons who also have very busy lives. Most phone calls from them are preceded by 'I've only got a minute mum but...'. It's gone on for so long now that I find it quite amusing. During the calls I usually say something like 'you'd better go son, you're busy' which is almost always met with 'no, no, it's fine'. I think this is a symptom of the times we now live in.

I've had to approach my sons on occasions about difficult subjects and know how agonising this can be. Elegran's suggestion of pointing your daughter to this thread is an excellent idea. Another option is to send your daughter a gentle email on the subject. I've done this (very rarely) with my sons and have been very surprised at how well they responded. One son went on to say that he was glad that I had. Oddly, he said that because he was as at work, he had the time to read and digest what I'd said! Both of these methods also remove the opportunity to interrupt and also to get over any initial irritation your daughter may feel.

You'll know best whether these are good options for you. One way or the other, I hope you are able to find a way to resolve what is a difficult situation for you and that you're able to spend time with your GC again. Best of luck.

Any help to (not 'report' or 'gossip' or 'whinge') to approach the subject with your other daughter?
I'm a bit concerned that the tired and stressed parents have come to rely heavily, (too heavily?)on the nanny and her efficiency. In which case anything negative you say about her may come over as interference and undermining of the family lifestyle.
It's a sad dilemma with the DGC getting older and more removed from you all the time.
Do you send them the occasional postcard or not? This could help maintain the link between you and GC, they usually love to get unexpected post.
Good luck with this unpleasant situation.

Thank you, mutti The time scale wasn't apparent.

Could you (without letting your blood-pressure shoot up!) point your daughter at this thread? It may be helpful for her to read a written account of what is happening, set down calmly, instead of hearing it verbally and interrupting with her own frustrations so that she doesn't hear all of your side. Perhaps you could even write it all down yourself and give it to her to read when she is not harassed.

It seems to me that the nanny is very efficient and organised, and doesn't see any reason to compromise an inch of her efficiency to suit anyone else. That is all very well, but relationships within the family are as important to the children as their daily routine, and surely if she is professionally trained she knows all about that?

I suspect she has a view of herself as one of those nannies in Victorian sagas, who take charge of every aspect of their charges' lives and rule the rest of the household too as though they are all still in the nursery under her iron will. Her employers may be happy to leave it all to her while they get on with their careers, but at what cost to family unity?