Vegans?

But that's your vegan 2nd cousin's fault.
Neither of my children, their wives, their children are pasty and unhealthy.
Even my grandson with autism has a varied diet, because we tell him to and explain why. He has to have a mix of fruit and vegetables at every meal. Admittedly he ate fish until a few months ago, but doesn't any more. He also runs 10k at least twice a week and plays football for at least 3 hours a week. His sister, who has never eaten meat or fish, dances and swims out of school, so she's fit as well. If they were unhealthy they would not be able to do what they do.

Lots of meat eating children have a limited diet. All my grandchildren eat far more vegetables and fruit than their meat eating friends do.

Saying that you eat animal produce because you like it is not hypocritical. It's honest.
Saying you eat it because nature intended you to is hypocritical. Nobody knows. It's just an excuse.

I am an omnivore but I do try hard not to support inhumane meat production by buying locally sourced meat from butcher which has organic provenance. As it costs a bomb we eat meat less often than I would like to. I know vegetarians find that hypocritical.
Vegan I could not do.
I know the arguments re food production/environment/food poverty etc etc. but I like butter and cheese, yogurt, cream eggs etc.

Humans have eaten meat and used animal products for thousands of years.

My vegan 2nd cousin has 3 pasty and unhealthy teen children because they eat a much too limited diet. They will not eat many veg or pulses so survive on baked beans and pasta or rice with pesto!

Surely if it's natural to eat meat, you should eat it raw, and catch and kill your own.

Did nature intend you to wear clothes? I presume you do that.
Did nature intend you to have a computer? I know you do that.
You do lots of things that nature has nothing to do with.

No, you are being very hypercritical. I criticise people who say nature intended them to eat meat. How do you know? That's not being hypocritical. No hypocrisy involved in my veganism at all.
You like eating meat. That's different.

I consider myself as nature intended, so eat meat. This has been going on since man existed so, no, I don't feel bad about it at all. I do however find quite a few people that decide otherwise to be rather hypercritical.

Good for you, saaki.
So because we are forced in some way to use a by-product of animals, does that make what we do somehow suspect or false?
At least we try to avoid animal suffering, unlike you.

I guess everyone can do what they want but have no right to put it on others (most veggies/vegans do actually use something along the way that is a by-product of an animal). I personally see myself as a carnivore so eat all meats/offal and find it delicious.

So if he needs dairy free, why do you not expect other people to buy it for him? Do you, in this day and age, carry round dairy free milk and cheese with you, or do others cook dairy free for him?

Yes Durham DH does need dairy free, as for killing it myself i'm sure the farmer that owned the cow would be well hacked off.

You'll be telling us you killed it yourself next.

What say does your husband have in it? Does he need dairy free products?

I am a meat eater, all of the food i eat comes from local farms in fact the beef i will roast tomorrow comes from a cow that was in the field outside of my dining room window. I will cook vegetarian meals but vegans can bring their own. I dont expect anyone to go out and buy dairy free products for my DH.

Our cavity wall insulation is made of that too, apparently. It looked like fluffy wool

My roof insulation is made from recycled plastic bottles.
You can buy duvets made from them, too.

As I said before, quizqueen you can get all the amino acids you need by combining certain pulses and grains. The most famous must surely be succotash (sufferin' succotash!) There are many different, traditional recipes for this dish (you can find them online) but the combination of butter beans (aka lima beans) and sweetcorn makes it a complete protein.

The best butter bean recipe I've come across can be found here:

www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/gigantes_with_tomatoes_47546
If the link doesn't work, look for Rick Stein Gigantes. It's a BBC recipe. Throwing in a quantity of frozen sweetcorn won't spoil it either.

Woolliegran I had a long chat with a lady who spins and knits the other week and she said that fleeces can hardly be given away. Not many of them are suitable for making garments but surely there could be many other uses found for them. I have heard of wool-filled duvets but they are very expensive.

Not all sheep are kept for meat, some are kept for their fleece and they do need to be shorn:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-34135805

I wonder if Chris felt chilly afterwards?

I'm not vegan or vegetarian but I try to buy milk from shops which give dairy farmers a good deal and from farms which keep herds of cows in good conditions.

Would you think that Marks and Spencer would be one of the best and most ethical food stores?
If so, this could change your mind:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/marks-spencer-farm-kept-cows-in-cramped-huts-8rkxpmcks

"Very few dairy cows in the UK mate naturally. The majority are impregnated by artificial insemination (AI), which involves restraining the cow so she can’t move and passing a catheter through the cervix of the cow and depositing the semen in her uterus (45).This is an uncomfortable, stressful experience for the cow which can result in injury if carried out by an untrained or inexperienced person (40). According to The Veterinary Surgery (Artificial Insemination) Order 2010, artificial insemination is one of the procedures non veterinarians are permitted to carry out (46). The criteria for being legally allowed to do this are: aged 16 years or over, have never been convicted of an offence relating to the welfare of animals, carrying out artificial insemination as part of an approved course or has successfully completed an approved course. AI training courses take place on working farms, using live animals for practice. "

From Viva!

Meringues using aquafaba.

The liquid from 1, 19oz can of Unsalted Chickpeas (about 1 cup of liquid)
½ teaspoon Vanilla Extract
¼ teaspoon Cream of Tartar
¾ Cup White Sugar

Instructions

Preheat the oven to 200F (100C).
Pour out the liquid from the can of chickpeas, and add it to a mixer bowl along with the vanilla extract and the cream of tartar.
Start beating on high, and slowly pour in the sugar as the beater is running. You may need to stop and scrape off any sugar that stuck to the sides of the bowl.
Continue to beat, stopping every now and then to check the meringue. When stiff peaks hold in the meringue without it collapsing, they are ready. It took me about 6 to 6½ minutes to reach the stiff peaks.
Line a baking sheet with parchment paper, and use small dots of meringue to hold the parchment paper down if needed.
Use a pastry bag, or a spoon to dollop on the meringue into even mounds.
Bake for 1½ to 2¼ hours, rotating the pans half way through. Now it's a little difficult to tell exactly when they are done, and I really racked my brain on how to share this information, but there is not much of a visual cue, so you are going to have to go with your gut a little on this one. If the meringues are small or you want a chewy center, opt for less time. If they are large or you prefer a meringue that is crunchy all the way through, opt for more time. It's not very easy to tell when they are ready just by look, so the best way is if you are able to take one out of the oven, (carefully tear a piece of parchment off with a meringue on it) let it cool, and see if it's are the correct texture. If it is, take the rest out of the oven. If not, bake longer. When they are ready let them cook and enjoy!
Store in a cool dry place. They are best eaten that day, but if your environment is very dry (not humid), they can last a few days.

For the last few weeks I have been driving past lambs frolicking in the fields on my way to work and it breaks my heart as I know what is in store for them very shortly. I am not completely vegetarian yet but eat so very little meat I feel I should cut it out altogether. Please, Durhamjen, can you post the recipe for the cakes made with liquid from tins of chick peas and perhaps all you veggies out there can also post some suggestions for other ways of getting round not using animal products in everyday cookery.

Wool makes me itch.
We can grow flax here for linen, with no additional pesticides, on any sort of land.
Why is that meat eaters feel free to criticise vegans for their ethical choices and then complain when we do the same?
It's meat eating that causes more environmental degradation than anything else.
Organic cotton is very sustainable. Expensive, but I bet most people who eat meat have far more clothes and shoes than I have.
You'll be saying leather furniture is better than anything else next.
The only reason there is leather furniture is because you all eat too much meat.
Somebody on GN must be eating an awful lot of meat as you all say you eat very little.

Some families become vegan for medical reasons. If you had a child who, when given cows milk, went into anaphyllactic shock, stopped breathing and nearly died, you would understand why a vegan diet was right for them.

Jayanna I so agree with you (09.50). It's the reason I'm not a veggie. I could easily give up meat, but I don't think I could give up dairy, and with regard to animal welfare it's worse than meat production, so I figure if I'm going to consume dairy produce I may as well eat meat. We always try to buy free range meat.

I agree with you wholeheartedly phoenix, a happy life and a humane death are the very least that many of us would like for our food. I'm not a veggie but eat very little meat.
I feel that veganism would be going too far for me as I couldn't imagine not eating eggs or fish. I love dairy and I can't imagine life without it.

I've just signed the Campaign for Wool's Dumfries Declaration. Wool is the 'greenest' fibre and is totally sustainable and carbon-neutral. If we don't eat sheep, then there'll be little wool. (And btw, very few ewes are artificially inseminated - ask the tups round here in Cumbria!). Vegans will be using fossil fuels to make all the fibres for their textiles - except for cotton which has ruined the ecosystems of Central Asia with its water requirements. Whither climate change then?